West Ham Cockney Boys


    Club Crest

    Share
    avatar
    Dan C
    Boot Cleaner

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2011-05-04
    Age : 34

    Club Crest

    Post  Dan C on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 10:29 am

    Hi all,

    At two recent SAB meetings the idea of evolving the Club Crest has been discussed at length. I have had to wait until the club launched its consultation to the wider fanbase before discussing further. The club has done this early today, with the link below taking you to the relevant article on the club website:

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    The club has gone into exhaustive research in attempting to recognise our heritage in the suggested designs that were shown to us (these were just suggestions as the club sought feedback from the SAB before then consulting the wider fanbase on their views). I was surprised by how often the crest has actually changed over the years. The Boleyn castle didn't appear on our crest until the '60s and was removed in the early-to-mid-80s before being restored. There was discussion about removing the castle so as to make the crossed hammers stand out more. The hammers have always been part of the club badge as they were key tools used by the Thames Ironworks, upon which the club was founded by Arnold Hills back in 1895. In the modern day we see the players, management and chairmen making the 'crossed hammers' sign whereas the castle is represented mainly by the ghastly turrets outside the West Stand. The hammers do not stand out enough and this is a drawback on modern facets such as social media.

    There was a discussion as to how the club name should be incorporated into the badge and whether 'West Ham' should be bigger than the 'United'.

    There was also a discussion on the merits or otherwise of adding 'London' to the badge - not as a name change but to make our location clear worldwide. This could be a moneyspinning marketing tool for the club and apparently other London clubs have tried to trademark the use of 'London' themselves in recent years.

    The general feeling was also that the scroll be removed and that the crest would just involve the 'shield' which currently contains the castle and hammers.

    Here is the full personal feedback I emailed to the club following the follow-up to the AGM, which I am leaving here to hopefully begin discussion and debate here:

    Before I go into my personal feedback and feelings on the evolution of the club crest, I thought I should correct a historical error. The Club's last crest change was actually 1999, not 1997 as presented this week and reported this evening on the official website. The previous incarnation of the crest was evident on the Pony-manufactured kit in 1998/99, with the current crest making its first appearance with the introduction of Fila as the club's kit manufacturer for 1999/2000 when the 'F.C.' was removed from the club crest too. [you can see this error has been corrected and that 1999 has been used in the link above].

    Onto my personal thoughts regarding the evolution of the crest: firstly, I am in support of an evolution and really recognise and appreciate the huge amount of work, effort and consideration that has clearly gone into understanding and portraying the club's full history in the prospected new designs - I feel this work has to be represented in some way to the wider fanbase so that a negative reaction to a potentially controversial move can be averted.

    I am in favour of removing the castle and would also remove the gold too, making the crossed hammers sky blue. I would personally think 'the simpler, the better' and just sky blue crossed hammers on a claret background within the shield would be fine.

    If the club name was to be added to the crest, I would not be in favour of making the 'West Ham' bigger than the 'United'. The club is 'West Ham United' and, from previous conversations with older fans, this is how the club always used to be referred to (Bobby Moore himself, apparently, would religiously call the club 'West Ham United' when interviewed). I really don't like it when David Gold refers to us as 'West Ham Football Club' - it's 'West Ham United'!

    I was relatively vocal on Tuesday in my lack of support for the addition of 'London'. I think the addition of London makes it sound like we have to tell the world where we're from, as if we're the little brother of Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea jumping around seeking attention. We shouldn't have to do that and I think playing in the stadium which hosted the London Olympics will do that for us anyway. I can see and respect the alternative view though and my opinion did soften when Angus [Kinnear, Managing Director] explained it in depth but I still think I'd lean on the side of not having it.

    I am also happy to have the scroll bearing the club name removed. If 'London' was to be removed from the shield and the club name was to be incorporated, then I would prefer the name to be along the bottom within the shield, rather than at the top. With my Media background, I believe it is better to have the club name at the bottom, anchoring the image of the crossed hammers, rather than having the name as the first thing your eyes are naturally drawn to at the top.
    avatar
    Tony P
    1st Team Bench

    Posts : 3517
    Join date : 2011-02-19
    Age : 56
    Location : Sidcup, Kent

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Tony P on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 11:14 am

    Thanks Dan. It is very difficult to have a preference when only explanations and not examples are available

    In short, however, I am against the notion of adding "London" to our badge. Having a more simple design based upon the crossed hammers would be acceptable; incorporating West Ham United equally sized
    avatar
    alfiehammer
    Reserves

    Posts : 1927
    Join date : 2012-08-15
    Age : 34
    Location : East Sussex

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  alfiehammer on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 12:17 pm

    London just reminds me of of playing the unlicensed football games that referred to clubs as North London reds (arsenal etc). I know thats going off on a tangent but to my mind its tacky. 

    Im fine with removing the castle from the crest and just having the hammers. 

    Did i read it right that the CLUB were against having the OS incorporated into the crest? I'd have thought the club were the ones pushing that one. Its not something I'm keen on. 

    Funnily enough, I normally think of us as West Ham as much as i do West Ham United- but that said I'm a traditionalist and not great with change so rather keep the United even if I personally only call or write it as West Ham. 

    As Tony said, I need to visualise examples. But I like the way the fans get a voice and the criteria (client reference numbers). well handled by the club.
    avatar
    Admin
    1st team

    Posts : 5326
    Join date : 2011-02-18
    Age : 27
    Location : Scandyland

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Admin on Sat 14 Jun 2014, 6:11 pm

    Tony P wrote:Thanks Dan. It is very difficult to have a preference when only explanations and not examples are available

    In short, however, I am against the notion of adding "London" to our badge. Having a more simple design based upon the crossed hammers would be acceptable; incorporating West Ham United equally sized
     stupid 

    This all comes down to marketing and IMHO if it aint broke why change it , people world wide will know West Ham Unite FC is in London when we move to the new gaff
    avatar
    mottinghammer
    1st Team Bench

    Posts : 2479
    Join date : 2011-02-22
    Age : 61
    Location : Narf Naarfolk 140 miles from UP

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  mottinghammer on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 4:37 pm

    Thename of our club is West Ham United, and should stay that way, all in the same size letters. For most of my life as a supporter the club badge/crest has included the castle. While I hate the bloody Disney things outside the main entrance, the castle is still part of the clubs history, but the most important thing to keep is the crossed hammers, which the club is known the world over for. I can't see any reason at all to incorporate the Olympic stuff or the word London into our crest, not needed and I should think not wanted by the vast majority of supporters.
    I totally agree that we need to see some mock ups of what is being suggested.
    avatar
    Dan C
    Boot Cleaner

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2011-05-04
    Age : 34

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Dan C on Sun 15 Jun 2014, 8:38 pm

    As far as I understand, the mock-ups are available for the wider fan base to see on the open days. The fans who attend the open days will then give their feedback to the club via email, as the SAB have already done. The club will then provide fans with designs based on all this feedback for a final vote.
    avatar
    RichB
    Boot Cleaner

    Posts : 425
    Join date : 2011-08-17
    Location : Berkshire

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  RichB on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:10 pm

    I have received the email from the club but when I try to open the web page to respond I have to enter a 'client reference number'. This does not appear to be in the email, can anyone tell me where I should look for it?

    I am not a season ticket holder just someone who buys tickets from time to time.

    Thanks
    avatar
    Jiggs
    1st team

    Posts : 5258
    Join date : 2011-02-18
    Age : 59
    Location : Romford or Upton Park

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Jiggs on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 9:51 pm

    A client reference number is given to season ticket holders and members card holders Rich.

    I've gone from season ticket holder, to member and back again, but the client reference number is always the same.  I would presume that if you have ever held a number at any time before Rich, it is that one that stays with you, and the one you should use now.

    I've renewed my ST for this season, but haven't had an email  Rolling Eyes


    _________________
    avatar
    Tony P
    1st Team Bench

    Posts : 3517
    Join date : 2011-02-19
    Age : 56
    Location : Sidcup, Kent

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Tony P on Mon 16 Jun 2014, 10:11 pm

    Watched the propaganda video and answered the survey. If they put "London" anywhere on the badge I will be mightily pissed off !!
    avatar
    Johnny K
    Academy

    Posts : 944
    Join date : 2011-03-10

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Johnny K on Tue 17 Jun 2014, 9:01 am

    Don't mind dropping the castle once we move.  Would prefer just the crossed hammers.  When I was a young person & prone to writing random stuff over things like school exercise books we always used to do the crossed Hammers with WHU in between.  Something along those lines but a bit more arty & classy could work?

    No London for me either though.
    avatar
    RichB
    Boot Cleaner

    Posts : 425
    Join date : 2011-08-17
    Location : Berkshire

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  RichB on Wed 18 Jun 2014, 9:28 pm

    Jiggs wrote:... if you have ever held a number at any time before Rich, it is that one that stays with you, and the one you should use now.

    Thanks, yes I've had a membership number some years ago so I'll have to dig it out.
    avatar
    Dan C
    Boot Cleaner

    Posts : 296
    Join date : 2011-05-04
    Age : 34

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Dan C on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 7:46 pm

    The opportunity to vote on the proposed new design is open until Friday evening. Here is the link:

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    I personally voted that I don't support it. I am in favour of evolving the badge in principle but do not like the way the club conducted their business over 'London'. There were questions in the original consultation directly about the hammers, then the castle, but no direct 'yes or no' questions on London. I don't like the addition of London here and I also don't like the 'United' being smaller than 'West Ham'.


    Last edited by Dan C on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    Campo
    1st team

    Posts : 5371
    Join date : 2011-03-08
    Location : Stranger in a strange land

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Campo on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 10:17 pm

    Bloody rubbish

    avatar
    manurewa hammer
    Reserves

    Posts : 1714
    Join date : 2011-04-01
    Age : 67
    Location : Auckland New Zealand

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  manurewa hammer on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 8:32 am

    Just a thought from someone far far away, I don't think London is required on the crest at all. We all know where the club comes from.
    Those of us associated with the club for years ahve a fairly decent idea of the history and traditions.
    My thoughts only, of course.
    avatar
    Campo
    1st team

    Posts : 5371
    Join date : 2011-03-08
    Location : Stranger in a strange land

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Campo on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:30 pm

    According to Queen Karren that IS the proposed new badge, no alternatives  :poopgym: 
    avatar
    Admin
    1st team

    Posts : 5326
    Join date : 2011-02-18
    Age : 27
    Location : Scandyland

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Admin on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 11:29 am

    Campo wrote:Bloody rubbish



    NO NO NO 
    avatar
    Campo
    1st team

    Posts : 5371
    Join date : 2011-03-08
    Location : Stranger in a strange land

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Campo on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 2:40 pm

    there appears to be some back tracking and now there are more options but you need to vote today



    avatar
    Jiggs
    1st team

    Posts : 5258
    Join date : 2011-02-18
    Age : 59
    Location : Romford or Upton Park

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Jiggs on Fri 11 Jul 2014, 3:11 pm

    Ferkin 'orrible!  

    Why did any of us bother to put in our tuppence'apenny's worth?  

    The emphasis on removing the castle, backed up by the 'fact' that the 'majority' were in favour?  The 'majority' of who exactly, the SAB? or Sullivan, Gold and Brady?   The castle did tend to 'take over' but should have remained in part ..  A small piece taken from the existing castle, representing the name of our home ground for the past 110 years.... Important history, which the board were all in favour of, well, except the 'Boleyn' name it would appear.

    This design was on their table months ago.  Our chance to have an input, was really their chance to try and brainwash us into choosing what they wanted.  Overall a cunning plan to make it look like the fans were involved. Do they really think we are that stupid?  

    Adding 'London' to the badge for marketing is of course what this project is all about. Deleting the castle makes more room for 'London'.  I'm sure Karen would have preferred to add London-Paris-NewYork if only she could have found a way!

    Whilst I am grateful for what Gold and Sullivan have done for our club, I am under no illusion as to why they did it. The re-design of the crest is just a small part of the plan to sell us on at a tidy profit to someone with more money than sense, once we are located in Stratford. They were talking about it on day one .......


    David Sullivan - 19th Januaty 2010 wrote:Sullivan believes the club's future would be brighter if they could move to the Olympics stadium in east London after the Games in 2012, but admitted they would have to reach some kind of compromise over the running track.   
    Asked whether they would be happy to live with the track around the pitch, he told Sky Sports News: 'Ideally no, but there may be a way we could lay the running track for three months or something. It may be cheaper to build a running track somewhere else. I don't think running tracks work, particularly behind the goal. The customers are so far back it doesn't work.   

    'We don't want to buy (the Olympic Stadium), we want to rent it. The Government promised to keep it alive for 30 years, it's going to cost them more to keep it alive. With us it's going to cost them nothing - we would pay all the running costs.'

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


    _________________
    avatar
    sandyclarksoldrangerssock
    Boot Cleaner

    Posts : 226
    Join date : 2011-12-21
    Age : 53
    Location : renfrew- north britain

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  sandyclarksoldrangerssock on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 8:09 pm

     not f***** happy , change f*** all , i would need to get a new tattoo and i've only had this one for a few months and its not even fully coloured in yet
    avatar
    westhamonkey
    Reserves

    Posts : 1153
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 12 Jul 2014, 8:44 pm


    it's a pretty piss poor design, you'd think they could have found something a little better without much effort - unfortunately they seem to have opted for the 'without much effort' rather than the 'something better' part
    avatar
    manurewa hammer
    Reserves

    Posts : 1714
    Join date : 2011-04-01
    Age : 67
    Location : Auckland New Zealand

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  manurewa hammer on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 8:24 am

    Is it going to be "fan power" that decides this one, or is the club just going to bulldoze its idea through? I can't vote from down here, but i sure as hell don't approve of the proposed designs.
    avatar
    Suzanne Claret
    1st Team Bench

    Posts : 2165
    Join date : 2011-04-17
    Age : 50
    Location : London

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Suzanne Claret on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 3:03 pm

    I rather like it...

    The idea is to make the badge clear and clear for multi-media use. Taking off the castle leaving the hammers does that.

    I don't mind the London bit or the fact that WEST HAM is larger than united.

    avatar
    westhamonkey
    Reserves

    Posts : 1153
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  westhamonkey on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 9:26 pm

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    There's an updated "Q&A" on the website...

    I'll admit that I'm still bemused by the additional of "London"

    I mean, I still don't understand why a decade or more ago, Motorhead started putting 'England' on all their T-shirts...

    It's not like there's more than one Motorhead, nor is there more than one West Ham...

    There's nothing in the Q&A that explains why people think this addition is necessary... why not add in "a football team" on the crest as well, just in case some people aren't quite sure what a 'west ham' is...


    Last edited by westhamonkey on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : crap spelling)
    avatar
    RichB
    Boot Cleaner

    Posts : 425
    Join date : 2011-08-17
    Location : Berkshire

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  RichB on Mon 14 Jul 2014, 10:53 pm

    Remove London, replace that with United in the same size font and the badge is fine.
    avatar
    westhamonkey
    Reserves

    Posts : 1153
    Join date : 2011-04-04

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  westhamonkey on Tue 15 Jul 2014, 2:28 am

    RichB wrote:Remove London, replace that with United in the same size font and the badge is fine.

    I tweeted the exact same thing to DG this morning...

    Sponsored content

    Re: Club Crest

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat 23 Sep 2017, 10:56 pm