vs schalke

only saw the second half but looked like same old same old to me.

I went to watch Concord Rangers beat a Millwall XI 3-0 so I did see a bit of entertainment today.  

Well I must say that that has to go down as the most boring 90 minutes of Football I have ever watched From West Ham , On the plus side at least we finally Won a game even if it was on penalties !

Kouyate and Collins were the two outstanding players for us today for me but the youngsters did well today such Potts, Poyet who started and Lleget when he come on did well but one thing is for sure We need another Striker as If Zarate or Valencia get injured we only have Carlton Cole who today looked crap !

I`m hoping he starts Jenkinson tomorrow as He seems to be a decent young RB who loves to attack but can also do his job of getting back and defending !

I hope I'm wrong but I cant see Allardyce starting anyone other than Nolan off Cole at the start of the season.

Kouyate looks a player. Very athletic and puts himself about. Can see a couple of suspensions this coming season though with our over-fussy refs

Diego Poyet keeps possession well. Nothing spectacular but steady

Fanimo - what was the point ? We could have played either Jarvis or RVT there

O'Brien - gives us absolutely nothing going forward but is a BFS player

Potts - not good enough. Out of position far too many times and too many hoofs to nobody in particular

Downing - very good 65 mins but probably gave up as there was nobody in the box apart from the static tree

Collins - despite my reservations about whether he was past it (based on the other pre-season matches) was my MoM. Solid. Read the play well. Probably went to ground a bit too often. Should have scored with a free header

Cole - I know he was isolated but he was utterly hopeless. Caught offside so many times I thought it was Mike Small out there. Constantly let his marker step in front of him. When crosses did come into the box he just stood there

As for the style of play - it is BORING BORING BORING

Solid and disciplined at the back and at the base of the midfield. Nothing in the attacking half of the pitch. No creativity. We have to be looking to play two up front in most home games next season to get the best out of Valencia and/or Zarate. If we are not experimenting with this in pre-season then when will we? I appreciate what Nolan has done for us in his three years but his presence and inevitable inclusion limits our forward options, creativity and the formations we can play.

You cannot play Nolan in a 4-4-2 as he is not your normal central midfield player and he is not a striker either. All the while Nolan plays, we cannot play two up front. This means Zarate and Valencia cannot play in their natural positions as they are not target men and neither will be played as a second striker. This limits our creativity and the quantity and quality of chances we create. Allardyce says chance creation is not an issue in our play - I would say it is the BIGGEST problem in our play.

The service into Carlton Cole was not worthy of the term 'service'. Carlton has proved he will both score and create goals if he is provided with the right kind of service into him. He is being made to look a mug. Downing, a fine player for us in my opinion, worked himself into decent positions down the flank but then had only one player within 50 yards of him to find with a pass or ball into the box.

I did say the defensive side of our game was a plus and it was. Kouyate looked impressive but he goes to ground far too quickly for a holding midfield player. Tackling is part of that role but so too are self-discipline, interceptions and positional play. If you go to ground and don't get the ball, you're either conceding free-kicks in dangerous areas or you're taken out of the game and the opponent is in on our back four.

In summary, we defend well but we can't attack. There is no flexibility to our play, strategy, formation or tactics and this, in my opinion, revolves around the inclusion of Nolan. Plan B is still not being explored. I don't mind seeing us play like this in away games or at home against the top 7 and grinding out points but I'd like to see some adventure and variation when we play beatable sides at home and the real lesser sides away. I do believe we have the players to vary our play and provide creativity and invention but I do not have faith in the manager to either a) play them or b) play them in the right position.

Dan C wrote:Solid and disciplined at the back and at the base of the midfield. Nothing in the attacking half of the pitch. No creativity. We have to be looking to play two up front in most home games next season to get the best out of Valencia and/or Zarate. If we are not experimenting with this in pre-season then when will we? I appreciate what Nolan has done for us in his three years but his presence and inevitable inclusion limits our forward options, creativity and the formations we can play.

You cannot play Nolan in a 4-4-2 as he is not your normal central midfield player and he is not a striker either. All the while Nolan plays, we cannot play two up front. This means Zarate and Valencia cannot play in their natural positions as they are not target men and neither will be played as a second striker. This limits our creativity and the quantity and quality of chances we create. Allardyce says chance creation is not an issue in our play - I would say it is the BIGGEST problem in our play.

The service into Carlton Cole was not worthy of the term 'service'. Carlton has proved he will both score and create goals if he is provided with the right kind of service into him. He is being made to look a mug. Downing, a fine player for us in my opinion, worked himself into decent positions down the flank but then had only one player within 50 yards of him to find with a pass or ball into the box.

I did say the defensive side of our game was a plus and it was. Kouyate looked impressive but he goes to ground far too quickly for a holding midfield player. Tackling is part of that role but so too are self-discipline, interceptions and positional play. If you go to ground and don't get the ball, you're either conceding free-kicks in dangerous areas or you're taken out of the game and the opponent is in on our back four.

In summary, we defend well but we can't attack. There is no flexibility to our play, strategy, formation or tactics and this, in my opinion, revolves around the inclusion of Nolan. Plan B is still not being explored. I don't mind seeing us play like this in away games or at home against the top 7 and grinding out points but I'd like to see some adventure and variation when we play beatable sides at home and the real lesser sides away. I do believe we have the players to vary our play and provide creativity and invention but I do not have faith in the manager to either a) play them or b) play them in the right position.

So in summary are you wanting Sam gone now Dan? A lot of your concerns are very obviously down to the managers selection and style. Sam seems to be his own worst energy really, in terms of achievement he has been a real success with the instant promotion and subsequent premiership style, but he does seem to have this blinding arrogance to evolve or adopt new ideas. I was hoping Teddy would be a good positive influence, bt maybe its too early to say still.

It will be interesting to see who starts the game today - and in which formation?

I can see Adrian replacing Jussi, O'Brien and Potts being replaced by Jenkinson and Cresswell. Tomkins and Reid starting as the two centre backs

In front of them I can see Noble coming back - possibly with Diame alongside him. In front of them Jarvis, Zarate and RVT with (maybe) Elliott Lee up front ?

Kouyate only played 53 mins. Downing was also taken off (and mouthed "is he taking the piss?" as he came off) - so both could get some more game time - although it is risky. Carlton Cole played over 80 mins so I cannot see him figuring.

Lletget looked tricky when he came on and didn't disgrace himself. Tried a bit too much in the wrong areas but he will learn.I am not sure which other Development Squad members are out there so difficult to guess which ones may get some game time. Turgott? McCullum? Chambers? Whitehead?

malaga are interesting opponents, a few years ago they were looking like the man city of their league, big investments etc and then the owners seemed to get voted and they had to sell off most (all?) the expensively acquired talent. I think we should be looking to win this be, nearly fully fit, sharper and try a 4-4-2 out. With downing on his favoured side

alfiehammer wrote:malaga are interesting opponents, a few years ago they were looking like the man city of their league, big investments etc and then the owners seemed to get voted and they had to sell off most (all?) the expensively acquired talent. I think we should be looking to win this be, nearly fully fit, sharper and try a 4-4-2 out. With downing on his favoured side

Did you see their game against Newcastle yesterday Alfie? They are a slick, pacey passing team with a goal threat. All the things we are not !! They ripped Newcastle apart first half. Mind you Newcastle's defence was awful; particularly Coloccini

Kray JR wrote:I hope I'm wrong but I cant see Allardyce starting anyone other than Nolan off Cole at the start of the season.

Oh he will, it's a given and reading between the lines, what we are all saying.  The arrogance within the man will forbid anything else and like he's going to adhere to instructions from G&S!

I'm convinced he does it all the more because he knows how much it grips our sh!t. (Sorry, not ladylike, but it's passed the stage of just getting on our nerves and you boys don't have tits)

first half against Malaga is appalling

2nd half didn't get any better, created little in the whole match really. Adrian making some good saves but struggling with the simple saves. I have little confidence in both keepers that we have for some reason. Jussi is getting on a bit and I always expect Adrian to make a mistake.

I am sorry but I cannot find ONE positive from that game v Malaga. Adrian failing to deal with simple shots straight at him. Both full backs awful. Reid looks completely disinterested and too full of himself to be effective. Non-existent midfield and the lone striker isolated as usual

Same shit different day from Allardyce. He is a dinosaur who simply cannot change the style of play

We will have the same Noble, Nolan, Cole combination against Spurs. No pace between any of them

alfiehammer wrote:
So in summary are you wanting Sam gone now Dan? A lot of your concerns are very obviously down to the managers selection and style. Sam seems to be his own worst energy really, in terms of achievement he has been a real success with the instant promotion and subsequent premiership style, but he does seem to have this blinding arrogance to evolve or adopt new ideas. I was hoping Teddy would be a good positive influence, bt maybe its too early to say still.

I've wanted Sam gone since the end of April alfie. My issue would be who we get to replace him. Moyes would be no improvement in terms of style. The board have stuck by Sam and he hasn't played his full first XI yet due to the nature of our pre-season games being so close together.

Sam will not be at the club come June 2015 - the board won't renew his contract. It will then only cost us £1.5m to buy Bilic out of the remaining year of his contract at Besiktas. It's a long time to wait but my biggest fear is which cheap, disastrous option will the board go for if they have to pay Sam off during the season?

Having said that, if we fail to pick up a victory out of our winnable first four games, expect Sam gone before Liverpool at home on September 20th.

I'll jump on the Sam out bandwagon now. I have had it with him. I hope the owners feel the same. I would like to see how David Moyes would do, but our fans have to see past his disaster at Man United and get behind him, if it is to work out.

He needed to go at the end of the 2013/14 season even though I thought at the time it would be harsh.

What this pre-season shows for me is that there will be no changes to how he sets the team up, one up front with two wide men a hundred miles away. We are nor set up to score goals. At the end of yesterdays game Rob Lee and Steve Clarke made some very good yet alarming points, points ALL of the pundits have been making about us for over a year now.

IronDane wrote: I would like to see how David Moyes would do, but our fans have to see past his disaster at Man United and get behind him, if it is to work out.

Most fans who want rid of Allardyce want that because of his style of play. With Moyes, for Carroll and Nolan, read Fellaini and Cahill. Big man knocks it down for the midfield finisher to score. Never played anything but 4-5-1 at Everton. Finished fourth bottom early on. Any fan who wants Allardyce out and Moyes in is asking for more of the same with added ginger in my opinion.

Yeah, it is probably not a good idea to employ Moyes here, as the fans would turn on him at the first loss. I am by no means an expert on formations or tactics, but I remember how Everton used to torment us under David Moyes. I especially remember Saha and that irritiating Fellaini. Also Arteta springs to mind.. I stumbled upon this page and here it says that Moyes used a variety of formations like 4-4-1-1, which he seemed to favour and 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1, 4-2-3-1 or 5-4-1 when defending: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ..

Isn't it btw difficult to say that you are playing a 4-5-1, wouldn't that mean that your 5 midfielders would be on a straight line, I don't remember our 5 midfielders being on a straight line, they usually move around. I don't get these formations

What Dan said.

To be honest, right now I would take Moyes over BFS. However, long term I want us to find the "next Pochettino". A young manager who instills a brand of pressing, passing, exciting football with young (mostly English) players - like Southampton last season

3-2-1 back in the room

It looks like we will be stuck with Sam for at least this season
What manager would want the job when Sam has already spent the summers cash

Tony P wrote:To be honest, right now I would take Moyes over BFS. However, long term I want us to find the "next Pochettino". A young manager who instills a brand of pressing, passing, exciting football with young (mostly English) players - like Southampton last season

3-2-1 back in the room

That would be nice, wouldn't it..

Highly unlikely, but nice   

Tony P wrote:To be honest, right now I would take Moyes over BFS. However, long term I want us to find the "next Pochettino". A young manager who instills a brand of pressing, passing, exciting football with young (mostly English) players - like Southampton last season

3-2-1 back in the room

Or, 4-5-1 back on the pitch