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    Sam Allardyce

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    Sam Allardyce should he be offered a new contract ?

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    Arran H
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    Sam Allardyce

    Post  Arran H on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 5:05 pm

    Should Sam Allardyce be offered a New contract at the end of the season or should we look to get in a different manager in the Summer regardless of how high up we finish this season ?

    In my honest Opinion I think we should let Sam go at the end of the Season when his contract is finish and not offer him a New one as I don't think he is the right person to lead us into the New Stadium and no matter what he does he will never be accepted by the West ham fans

    I think we should look to bring in someone else for Next season who will take us into the New Stadium , Someone who will "play football" and will give the Kids a chance etc someone like Ronald Koeman for example he looks to get his team playing football and looks to bring players through from the club
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    alfiehammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  alfiehammer on Sun 15 Feb 2015, 6:53 pm

    I personally think most fans and chairman in most clubs suffer from 'the grass is always greener on the other side' syndrome and 'over realistic expectations' syndrome. That's whys u get the likes of the venkeys taking over Blackburn and promising champions league football in 5 years (think learner did the same at villa, and the biscuit man at West Ham). In reality very few teams have a real shot at a top 4 spot and most these clubs have a shit ton more money then us to get them there. The premier league table is very similar to the total transfer expenditure table. It's not a level playing field and we aren't a particularly affluent club. 

    Also seen a lot of managers sacked for taking and keeping a club to a level where everyone but that group of fans supporters and chairman thinks they should be. Chris night on being sacked a few years ago comes to mind but there's plenty more. 

    The club invariably does no better and a succession of managers come and go. Spuds did it with Harry 


    I don't always like all Sams decisions,mtransfers or tactics but he does, season on seasn, do what I realistically expect. 

    I remember us wanting more glamours football before, and appointing Zola. We were abysmal then. 


    In a nut shell, I have my off days with Sam, but I'd rather see him get another short contract and guidelines to work around, including more attractive football
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    mottinghammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  mottinghammer on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 2:37 pm

    I'll go along with what Alfie said, don't necessarily like all I see with BFS (His love affair with Nolan?) but he will keep us in the top half of the table for the next couple of seasons, which in the current tv situation will be fantastic for the club. When we get to the Olympic stadium and have 54K every week plus the tv money, then maybe we can move on and to the next level. Which for a club like us will be to get into the Europa League on a regular basis, win a cup now and again and retain our place at the top table.

    At this stage who are we going to attract to the club that will be any better than what we currently have? Few would be my guess, Koeman has continued what was already in place at Saints, maybe we should look at how they do things on a long term basis rather than change managers just cos he is a cud chewing northern monkey!
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    JulianDicksLeftKnee
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  JulianDicksLeftKnee on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 4:41 pm

    He's from Dudley which is only just above Nahrfolk!!

    It's a difficult one. He has done what was expected, and to be honest, a bit more. The football folk is a fickle nature; and results are judged solely (largely) on the last. The roller coaster of being a fan is hugely different to those directly dealing within the club on a daily basis.

    A manager has to have the tools to utilise the materials; the materials have to be of suitable quality for the managers tools. We have been at a stage for too long where the materials have not been good enough (I say a while, 30 odd years with some exceptions have seen us float from lower table to second tier-a few years sporadic of top 10/8/6). The influx of perceived quality this season paid off initially - we were all but safe by Christmas and even HH66 was happy! Our success was our undoing because, as said before, we are a fickle bunch (the football supporter) and our over-exhaulted performances and league position caused a bit of a fallout when the wagon started to wobble. We had the same players, same manager, same tactics (argue the toss about semantics but overall it was the same) but December time things began to change to the detriment. (Hang on, I'm remembering a saying as old as I; "What have West Ham and Christmas decorations got in common" - a comment that pre-dates Sam, Grant, Zola and even Lyall) I think that had a little to do with Sam and selection, a little to do with injuries, a little to do with confidence breeding confidence, a little to do with everything - because (and this is the salient point) this is football for every team - even the biggest names.

    In essence, Sam has done what the tin said he needs to do. The real question is do we continue with that and hope his tools are suitable for the new improved materials (not materials stuck with a sticky Betway label over them) or has his hammer and chisel outdated and we need a craft tool specialist bought in? Then that question is.... who??

    It's impossible to say where or how we would have faired if a different appointee had been made; just as it is impossible for even the most savvy professional to know what is best now. I don't know and I don't feel I am qualified to offer my thoughts should Dave, Dave and Dame K come and ask me-as I am an armchair fan. hose who regularly go will have a more qualified opinion than me.

    My gut feeling is the Dave's will say bonjour to Sam. They've had their run in's and I think now Sully is head honcho now, in shares and voice, that he will strive for another man.


    I have, effectively, said nothing here but there's a lot of that about!
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    mottinghammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  mottinghammer on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:05 pm

    It's a scary thought JDLK but I've come a long way from Royal Greenwich! At least here the accent is more palatable than a Dudley one. I make you right with your thoughts on DS, and BFS's days are numbered, but who will come to us that is better? Few I think at this stage.
    I'd give him till we are safely at the new gaff, make sure the money is rolling in the. Look for some one better. IMHO of course
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    Jiggs
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  Jiggs on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 9:36 pm

    Well put everyone.

    I reckon the Daves and Lady Brady already have a replacement in mind, and have probably approached him. Whether that man is available for the summer or not is the question.

    If they believe that they've found an absolute gem of a manager, I hope they will bide their time and make it happen.  If that means we have to keep Allerdyce for a while, then so be it ..... No more than a rolling weekly contract though   cheesey grin


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    westhamonkey
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  westhamonkey on Mon 16 Feb 2015, 11:03 pm


    why does everyone seem so certain in the "reckoning" that the Dave's have tapped up someone else?

    people were baying for Sam's blood a year ago and the Dave's could have easily jumped on another sucker or just bowed to popular opinion and been heroes...

    But they didn't.

    Name me one manager who the top ten clubs in the Premiership would snap up in a heart beat - because unless it's one of those... why would we want them?

    Sam is the ideal manager for lower to mid table in the Prem... that's what we have and what we're expecting.

    So any change needs to be for the better... which means it has to be a manager that a club like Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham, ManUre, Man City or Chelsea - because we already have a manager who is capable of getting us into the group immediately below that bunch...

    And so... WHO is out there in the world that meets that criteria and is actually available or is going to be available in the next year?

    We're moving into a 50,000 seater stadium, giving us the potential to be one of the top clubs in the country and europe.
    You either give the job to the bloke who go you there (and whether you like it or not... Sam got us from the Championship to top ten of the Prem in three or four seasons) or you give the job to someone who is already at that level.

    Not such a simple choice, is it?
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    westhamonkey
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  westhamonkey on Tue 17 Feb 2015, 11:25 pm


    so here we go...

    It's in the newspaper... it must be true...

    so they trot out the usual suspects... David Moyes???? For fupp's sake...

    Wonder how long before some bright spark makes the connection with Harry Redknapp... he used to play for the Hammers AND he's available...
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    JulianDicksLeftKnee
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  JulianDicksLeftKnee on Wed 18 Feb 2015, 3:33 pm

    Another ether filling copy and paste bit of "journalism" that says nothing.

    Repetive lines that contradict eachother (one minute Nene is a striker, the next line he's a winger. journo eventually settles on goalscoring winger).

    Also the Dave's and Sam have said from the start of the season that new contract talks will happen as the season draws to a close.

    An example of the pigs-ear school of journalism


    And the deal looks set to get through despite a split between ownership and the manager over whether the Hammers should sign the 33 year-old goalscoring winger.

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    alfiehammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  alfiehammer on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 11:52 am

    F
    JulianDicksLeftKnee wrote:Another ether filling copy and paste bit of "journalism"  that says nothing.

    Repetive lines that contradict eachother (one minute Nene is a striker, the next line he's a winger. journo eventually settles on goalscoring winger).

    Also the Dave's and Sam have said from the start of the season that new contract talks will happen as the season draws to a close.

    An example of the pigs-ear school of journalism


    And the deal looks set to get through despite a split between ownership and the manager over whether the Hammers should sign the 33 year-old goalscoring winger.

    Is it just me or does EVERY new signing seems to be to the chairmans liking (specifically Sullivan) and not Sam's? This isn't a scenario that I've ready about very often (if at all) in other clubs.


    Strongest media story seems to be Billic, but believe teddy is betting favourite at 4/1. It DOES seem like the decision has been made to move on....
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    JulianDicksLeftKnee
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  JulianDicksLeftKnee on Thu 19 Feb 2015, 1:48 pm

    Says 2 things. Our chairman is a cocky know it all sod, or they do not trust Sam as he is not staying.

    I'd say a combination of both.

    By far, we are not the only ones but we notice it more because it is us. Many managers have walked because of board interference; and I can understand why a chairman will interfere-your talking HUGE amounts of money now so it would be churlish for them not to have a say or an input BUT they should only be directing a policy, an ethos and ensure they have the man they want. Of course that can change because people fall out-it's natural.

    Little question; has Sam made any real bad signings-not signings we still have but have past their use but any total disasters that weren't forced upon him for whatever reasons (Roger Johnson because so short in defence). I mean I hated being Notlob reserves, hated Nolan from day 1 but they did the job-might not be now but they did then. Course you can list the bit2 part players, the injury signings but presumably they were made with good intent (Just thought Mr Magoo!!!)

    It seems purely by media and all that DS is again becoming the more dominant (in all ways) partner and DG is slinking into the background (he is old bless him). I can see a steady stream of head coaches/managers a-coming our way after this reign with Sulivan and Sons rubbing a lot of arses up the wrong way.
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    manurewa hammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  manurewa hammer on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 2:13 am

    Hadn't thought about Teddy- We could do worse?
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    alfiehammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  alfiehammer on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 7:58 am

    Its not a bad shout in all honesty. Might ack a bit of experience, but then a fresh approach can work well sometimes. I'm still hoping for Sam for another year or two for increased stability. Teddy can learn the trade as a head coach or something. 

    Wether I still think this at 2pm Sunday will be interesting to see...
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    Jiggs
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  Jiggs on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 8:51 pm

    After getting us back into the premiership, he's always done what the chairmen wanted - kept us there.  

    Even when the results were beyond crap, when he changed the system or style of play for no apparent reason. While he still insisted on featuring Nolan and fielding players in positions alien to them. Why exactly? Because the Chairmen made public what Allerdyce's role was, he could still claim to be doing what they'd asked.

    Citing the 2014-15 campaign as being "crucial to our future"  The chairmen said "Although not everybody understands the West Ham Way, we do and we respect it as we have been supporters all our lives"  But their view of taking the club forward was not just keeping it in the premier league. It would also involve building a squad that could outperform the so called bigger clubs on a more regular basis and bringing through the youth from the Academy.  I mean, why would we want to be a selling, yoyo club, fighting relegation and promotion every other year in another stadium?  A case of same shit different venue!

    So the board backed Allerdyce at the end of last season and invested considerable funds to buy new players, which incidentally would see the board have a greater involvement in the players who were signed. They also allegedly, demanded more entertainment on the pitch.  In return Allerdyce agreed to recruit a new attacking coach, improve developing our youth and play pretty football, the West Ham way.

    The first four games, 1 win, 1 draw and 2 losses, saw Valencia, Sakho, Amalfitano or Zarate start on the bench, except for when Zarate scored a goal in our win.  Our best run so far this season were victories against Liverpool and Manchester city at home the latter being preceded by wins to QPR and Burnley before a loss to Mancscum.  Nolan missed the Liverpool game but appeared as sub for the next four, where BFS was forced to play all of our new signings. I can't be arsed to scrutinise the other 16 games, suffice to say that there have been 5 wins, 7 draws and 4 losses, with all but 2 draws seeing Nolan start.  Make of that what you will, but consider that when he starts one of our new signings doesn't.........well apart from Zarate who's been loaned to QPR!  There also appears to be a discrepancy between Gold and Allerdyce at the moment.  With Gold tweeting that Nene will be available for our game at White shite lane whilst Allerdyce claims that he is not match fit.   

    Not too clued up on the Academy, so this may be unfair. Can anyone throw any light? I only know that Blair Turgott and Matthias Fanimo played in the FA Cup third round at Nottingham Forest in January 2014. It was Turgott's debut and Fanimo's 2nd appearance for the first team. BFS threw another 9 youngsters in with them and they lost 5-0.  That would do bucket loads to help them, yes?  Nope, West Ham let them both go earlier this month.


    So, has he kept to his side of the bargain?  I think not.  It's why I reckon The Double 'D's have someone else in line.  Apart from Allerdyce just not being up to "part 2", can anyone else really see the chairmen invest so much time and money into a project to not have a proven replacement in place?


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    westhamonkey
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:00 pm



    Gold and BFSA aren't exactly at odds over Nene... Gold said on his twitter that Nene was 'fit' but not necessarily 'premiership match fit' - so that's pretty much exactly what BFSA said about him.

    "I was told by the physio the he was 'fit' but of course that doesn't mean match fit. dg"

    and more recently

    "Nene could be in the squad for the Palace game next Saturday. dg"

    so... hardly a news story there...
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    westhamonkey
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 21 Feb 2015, 11:05 pm



    I'm not really sure what more BFSA could actually do to "keep his side of the bargain"

    I mean he got us back into the Premiership at the first time of asking - something we'd never achieved in the whole history of the club.

    He kept us in the Premiership

    He's managed us as we've gone up the table

    He's worked with a new attacking coach

    He's adopted a 'more "beautiful" style' of football

    Seriously... apart from offering the bosses a quick hand shandy after every goal... what more is he actually supposed to have done to "keep his side of the bargain" - I'm intrigued.

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    Admin
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  Admin on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 11:18 am

    westhamonkey wrote:

    I'm not really sure what more BFSA could actually do to "keep his side of the bargain"

    I mean he got us back into the Premiership at the first time of asking - something we'd never achieved in the whole history of the club.

    He kept us in the Premiership

    He's managed us as we've gone up the table

    He's worked with a new attacking coach

    He's adopted a 'more "beautiful" style' of football

    Seriously... apart from offering the bosses a quick hand shandy after every goal... what more is he actually supposed to have done to "keep his side of the bargain" - I'm intrigued.

    Steak & BJ is probably what the Daves are after
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    mottinghammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  mottinghammer on Sun 22 Feb 2015, 1:05 pm

    Well he's made start today benching his love child!
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    SemiOldIron
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  SemiOldIron on Mon 23 Feb 2015, 8:51 am

    For what its worth, I think that 90% of this "story" is journo invention to fill the column inches - just remember, if nothing is happening they can't leave blank space on the back pages or they'll be looking for another job. The other 10%? Sullivan is mouthy and arrogant, BFS is mouthy and arrogant, and I cannot imagine that they work together with absolutely no friction. I think that every now and then Sullivan likes to yank BFS's chain just to show him who is boss. A word here and there to the media is all it takes.
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    Jiggs
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  Jiggs on Mon 23 Feb 2015, 1:29 pm

    SemiOldIron wrote:For what its worth, I think that 90% of this "story" is journo invention to fill the column inches - just remember, if nothing is happening they can't leave blank space on the back pages or they'll be looking for another job. The other 10%? Sullivan is mouthy and arrogant, BFS is mouthy and arrogant, and I cannot imagine that they work together with absolutely no friction. I think that every now and then Sullivan likes to yank BFS's chain just to show him who is boss. A  word here and there to the media is all it takes.

    Absolutely SOI, and in a round about way what I tried to put over. 

    Sullivan buying players and telling BFS to play them, whilst BFS nods and smiles but thinks "Yeah right, as and when I want to",
    will constantly wind Sullivan up.  BFS continuing to play Nolan instead of what Sullivan considers the better option, will imo result in Sullivan sacking him to achieve the ultimate "win" in their stupid schoolboy battle of wits.


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    alfiehammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  alfiehammer on Tue 24 Feb 2015, 6:34 pm

    Still thank Sam is the right man for job
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    Admin
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  Admin on Sun 01 Mar 2015, 5:45 pm

    Benitez is available in the summer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  Admin on Mon 02 Mar 2015, 5:16 pm

    Allardyce is currently 9/4 to leave his post. Sunderland boss Gus Poyet is 11/4 with Ladbrokes to leave before Allardyce, with Nigel Pearson at 7/2 and John Carver out at 10/1.
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    manurewa hammer
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  manurewa hammer on Tue 03 Mar 2015, 7:07 am

    So Gus to us eh! At least he can keep an eye on his son eh!
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    Tony P
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    Re: Sam Allardyce

    Post  Tony P on Tue 03 Mar 2015, 7:26 pm

    manurewa hammer wrote:So Gus to us eh! At least he can keep an eye on his son eh!

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!

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