That Europa cup thingy

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    RichB
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  RichB on Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:57 am

    I can see either team scoring more goals in the 2nd half so let's hope it's us!
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    Campo
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  Campo on Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:09 am

    well the kids had a go, the senior players... Oh dear
    Miaga is totally robbing us of his wage, how on earth he ever got a professional contract I don't know, I am not taking the piss when I say that there are better players in non-league
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    RichB
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  RichB on Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:21 am

    Very disappointed. Having been excited at getting entry I feel we have squandered the opportunity to get some European football at UP in the last season there. I don't buy the "concentrate on the league" or "better of out" theories. Once you're in you should give it your best shot, like Southampton appear to have done. To me this poor show just deflates expectations and weaken morale for the coming season. So, next up Arsenal away...
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    Tony P
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  Tony P on Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:23 am

    If tonight tells Bilic anything it should tell him that Randolph is not up to being our No.1 keeper. Maiga is a waste of a shirt. Lanzini, despite scoring, is a mile off being strong enough physically for the first team. Collins and Henry are 3rd and 4th choice centre backs

    My first choice team is Adrian, Jenkinson, Reid, Ogbonna, Cresswell, Kouyate, Obiang, Payet, Zarate, Amalfitano (or Valencia for either when fit), Sakho

    Subs: Speigel, Carroll, Noble, Tomkins, O'Brien, Samuelsen/Lanzini, Lee
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    alfiehammer
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  alfiehammer on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:55 am

    Really upset tonight, for me we should have had a proper go with a much stronger team....7 first choice players maybe to start then sub three depending on how things were going. If we don't aspire to do well in every competition we enter then really what is the point? Agree with Tony's assessment on what we have learned tonight. 


    Billic- the honeymoon period is over.
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    westhamonkey
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  westhamonkey on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:35 am

    maybe it should also tell Bilic that sending out Dicksie as the manager ain't the best idea either.

    what happened to Sheringham? Is he still with us or did that all end?

    I suppose I get it - and I know Dicksie is Bilic's assistant... but I don't see him having had any success as a manager so seems weird to have him on the touchline - why not the reserve team coach like in the opening game if Bilic can't be allowed to do his job.

    I personally feel we fucked up big time tonight and if we don't destroy Arsenal on sunday (which is quite frankly hugely unlikely) then it was all a waste of a golden opportunity to lift the club

    Thanks to the youngsters for showing up and giving it a go - but no thanks for following in the footsteps of the seniors and not being able to capitalize or hold onto a lead...


    Last edited by westhamonkey on Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I forgot - honestly forgot Bilic was suspended for this game)
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    JulianDicksLeftKnee
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  JulianDicksLeftKnee on Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:13 pm

    Mucho wanko. Not watched a minute and expect not to all season. If you see me near a Sky, Virgin, BT box or a suitable illegal thread then you have permission to shoot me.

    I cannae take it.
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    alfiehammer
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  alfiehammer on Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:18 pm

    westhamonkey wrote:maybe it should also tell Bilic that sending out Dicksie as the manager ain't the best idea either.

    what happened to Sheringham? Is he still with us or did that all end?

    I suppose I get it - and I know Dicksie is Bilic's assistant... but I don't see him having had any success as a manager so seems weird to have him on the touchline - why not the reserve team coach like in the opening game if Bilic can't be allowed to do his job.

    I personally feel we fucked up big time tonight and if we don't destroy Arsenal on sunday (which is quite frankly hugely unlikely) then it was all a waste of a golden opportunity to lift the club

    Thanks to the youngsters for showing up and giving it a go - but no thanks for following in the footsteps of the seniors and not being able to capitalize or hold onto a lead...


    Sheringham left to become manager of Stevenage I believe
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    alfiehammer
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  alfiehammer on Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:21 pm

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    West Ham were knocked out of the Europa League in the third qualifying round following a 2-1 defeat by Romanian side Astra Giurgiu to lose 4-3 on aggregate. 
    After letting a two-goal lead slip in the first leg, debutant Manuel Lanzini put the much-changed Hammers ahead.
    But two goals in four minutes from Astra skipper Constantin Budescu earned the Romanian side victory.
    Defeat ends a stuttering campaign for Slaven Bilic's team, who qualified through the Fair Play League.
    Modibo Maiga missed a late chance to take the game to extra time but with Astra also hitting the post twice, they created better chances at more regular intervals.
    The result meant the Hammers, in their first European outing since the 2006-07 season, are eliminated from Europe before the start of their domestic season.
    But with 11 changes made to the side from the first leg, with three players making their debuts, there was an obvious lack of experience on the field and an apparent lack of desperation to save the tie on a hot night in Romania.
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    Did West Ham want to progress?

    With Sunday's Premier League opener against Arsenal in his mind, Bilic left a host of senior players at home while Kevin Nolan, Carl Jenkinson and Maiga were the only regular starters in the team.
    The Croatian was further hindered after being sent off in the first leg at Upton Park, meaning he had to sit in the stands and leave assistant Julian Dicks to deliver tactical instructions.
    Nolan and Jenkinson were influential in the game but Maiga remained on the fringes until his late chance and there was an inability to turn good spells into genuine opportunities. 
    Despite Bilic insisting prior to the match that Europe was "important" to West Ham, Hammers fans may now wonder whether their European adventure was worth it after a campaign which started on 2 July, took in six matches without facing any big-name European teams and ended before it even got interesting.
    Hammers skipper Nolan said: "The gaffer has shown in his selection the main priority is the Premier League and this year the main thing is to make sure we go to the Olympic Stadium in the Premier League. 
    "The statistics show it's difficult trying to rotate between Thursday and Sunday and who knows it might be a blessing in disguise? But going out is not what we wanted."

    'No regrets' for Bilic

    Bilic, who led former club Beskitas to the last 16 in last season's Europa League, said of his team selection: "You can't be sorry. I said it was tempting but when you make a decision you stand by it and you know the consequences.
    "I have to make decisions. It is me who is making them and then when you make it you stand behind that.
    "I said [on Wednesday] that we had more chances to win with some of the players who stayed in London but I think the boys not only did everything, the effort was there, the quality was there as well - especially until they scored two goals.
    "When the Premier League starts, we have a game and of course we are looking to get a positive result. Do I need to justify the result here? I told you it was my decision." 

    How did the debutants do? 

    Argentine Lanzini wasted little time in making an impression on Bilic, who said beforehand that the match was an opportunity for his debutants to prove their value.
    Lanzini is on a season-long loan from Abu Dhabi side Al Jazira Club and after impressing in West Ham's friendly against Werder Bremen on Sunday he was involved from the start, surging from midfield to win a free-kick, and scoring following a dangerously delivered corner. 
    But the 22-year-old showed his inexperience by giving the ball away in the build-up to Astra's equaliser, with fellow debutant Doneil Henry, a Canadian international, also backing away as Budescu struck the first of his two goals. 
    Partnered by Jenkinson in central defence, 22-year-old Henry had a steady game with Budescu continuing to cause problems. At right-back 18-year-old Kyle Knoyle made a significant bow after coming through the club's famous academy, which has produced players such as Michael Carrick, Rio Ferdinand and Frank Lampard.
    While suffering defeat in his first game and failing to deliver several crosses, the experience will no doubt form an important milestone in his education.
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    SemiOldIron
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  SemiOldIron on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:41 pm

    Everyone and his brother knows that the way to succeed in these European thingys is win your home leg with a clean sheet and try to nick something away. Once you have chucked away the home leg you are on a hiding to nothing, and that'sprecisely what we did. I disagree with my esteemed colleagues who posted previously, IMO a sound start in the League is worth a lot more than an outside chance of progress in the Europa. And IMO, a sound start away to Arsenal in their current form is not getting thrashed and thoroughly dispirited on day one. In all honesty, anything better than losing by a 3 goal margin will be a positive for me - I don't think that's defeatist, the difference in sheer technical ability between the likes of us and the big four gets bigger every season. As in just about everything nowadays, its money that talks, and we ain't got enough yet.

    The Europa was an odd little distraction that no-one really expected, so pointless judging Bilic over it. The real stuff starts on Sunday.
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    RichB
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  RichB on Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:48 pm

    SemiOldIron wrote:...I disagree with my esteemed colleagues  who posted previously, IMO a sound start in the League is worth a lot more than an outside chance of progress in the Europa...
    My only point is that I strongly believe that a winning spirit is a good thing and winning against lower ranked sides would have generated that feeling going into the start of the season.
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    westhamonkey
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  westhamonkey on Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:33 pm

    SemiOldIron wrote:Everyone and his brother knows that the way to succeed in these European thingys is win your home leg with a clean sheet and try to nick something away. Once you have chucked away the home leg you are on a hiding to nothing, and that'sprecisely what we did. I disagree with my esteemed colleagues  who posted previously, IMO a sound start in the League is worth a lot more than an outside chance of progress in the Europa. And IMO, a sound start away to Arsenal in their current form is not getting thrashed and thoroughly dispirited on day one. In all honesty, anything better than losing by a 3 goal margin will be a positive for me - I don't think that's defeatist, the difference in sheer technical ability between the likes of us and the big four gets bigger every season. As in just about everything nowadays, its money that talks, and we ain't got enough yet.

    The Europa was an odd little distraction that no-one really expected, so pointless judging Bilic over it. The real stuff starts on Sunday.

    Yes - too early to really judge a 9 month campaign.

    However -

    Pre-season has shown as complete lack of stability or clarity in team selection. The team displays the same flaws as we've all seen for years - inability to hold onto a lead, lack of concentration, poor defending, a lack of a strike force, playing a 'one upfront' system that has never worked for us in any way, shape or form...

    Being unable to be average to poor European sides (penalties against a team from Malta after LOSING the actual game... remember?, we don't even need to focus on an average to poor Romanian side)

    So no, can't bury Bilic yet, but he's been out and bought himself a big old shovel...

    The sunday game will show a lot, since we put all of our current eggs into that basket.

    Lose badly to the Arse or put in a poor performance and the pros and cons columns will start becoming very unbalanced
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    westhamonkey
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:03 am


    Head-to-head
    Arsenal have won their last 10 league and cup games against West Ham, including nine Premier League matches.
    The Hammers did the double over the Gunners in 2006-07 but since then are winless in 15 league and cup games (D2, L13) against them.

    Arsenal
    The Gunners have lost their opening Premier League game just once in the last 14 seasons (W9, D4) - a 3-1 home defeat by Aston Villa in 2013.
    However, they have begun with a victory just once in the past five years, albeit against Crystal Palace last term.
    Arsenal have failed to score in three of their last four home league games.
    Olivier Giroud has scored five goals in five top-flight games against West Ham, while Theo Walcott has also scored five times against the Hammers.

    West Ham United
    The Hammers have lost nine times on the opening weekend of a Premier League season - more than any other club.
    They won nine of their first 17 Premier League games last season, but just three of the subsequent 21.
    West Ham are winless in 12 Premier League away games (D5, L7) since a 2-1 victory at West Brom on 2 December 2014.
    Dimitri Payet, who has joined from Marseille, created 135 chances in 2014-15 - the highest figure in the top five European leagues.



    When you look at those stats against the Arse... you really have to question why we didn't put more effort into the failed European campaign...



    Arran H
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  Arran H on Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:23 am

    If I`m being honest I think we will do a Spurs in that Last year they struggled to start off with as the squad was getting used to the new manager`s style but once they had got used to it they were a very good team etc and I have a feeling that is what will happen with us .. we will start off poor but as we get used to playing Bilic`s style we will get stronger as the season goes on
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    westhamonkey
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    Re: That Europa cup thingy

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:37 am

    Arran H wrote:If I`m being honest I think we will do a Spurs in that Last year they struggled to start off with as the squad was getting used to the new manager`s style but once they had got used to it they were a very good team etc and I have a feeling that is what will happen with us .. we will start off poor but as we get used to playing Bilic`s style we will get stronger as the season goes on

    so you're saying... based on pre-season and our "embarrassing" exit from Europe, you've figured out what Bilic's "style" is?

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