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    West Ham United V Stoke

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    Jiggs
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    West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Jiggs on Fri 11 Dec 2015, 8:14 pm

    West Ham V Stoke


    Boleyn Ground 12/12/15 3.00pm


    TEAM NEWS

    Winston Reid and Victor Moses have joined West Ham's lengthy injury list after being ruled out until the new year with hamstring problems.
    The Hammers are already without Dimitri Payet, Diafra Sakho and Manuel Lanzini, although Enner Valencia could return.
    Stoke defender Marc Muniesa is expected to be involved after missing the last six games with a hamstring injury.
    The Potters remain without strikers Peter Crouch and Peter Odemwingie and goalkeeper Shay Given.

    WHAT THE MANAGERS SAY
    West Ham manager Slaven Bilic: "It's going to be hard without players like Lanzini, Payet, Moses and Sakho, but we played without almost all of them against Manchester United and still we created enough chances to score goals.
    "As I said, when all the players were available it was also about the squad. Now, we have a tinier squad but it's time for those those players to step up."

    Stoke manager Mark Hughes: "After a performance and result like that [against Manchester City], there's been a real crackle about the group and some banter. You sense a lot of confidence.
    "But the challenge is being able to do it week in, week out, not just in one-off games.
    "You've got to be able to go up against teams at the bottom, as we saw against Sunderland, where we didn't really start the game as well as we should have done."

    MATCH FACTS
    Head-to-head

    • Stoke are unbeaten in four league meetings with West Ham (W2, D2).
    • The Hammers have won just once at home in their last five league meetings (D2, L2).

    West Ham

    • West Ham have gone five league matches without a win (D3, L2).
      However, they are unbeaten in their last five league games at home, winning two and drawing three.
    • Their clean sheet against Manchester United last weekend was their first in 10 league matches.
    • After scoring an average of 2.2 goals per game in their first 10 league matches, they have averaged just 0.6 in their last five.
    • The injured Dimitri Payet created 47 goalscoring chances in the Premier League this season - no other West Ham player has created more than 19.

    Stoke

    • Stoke have lost just two of their last 10 league matches (W6, D2).
    • They have kept six clean sheets in their eight most recent league games.
    • However, they have only scored six goals in their last 10 matches away from home in the Premier League.
    • The Potters are the joint-lowest scorers in the top flight, along with Aston Villa, having managed just 13 goals in 15 games.
    • Marko Arnautovic has scored in both of his Premier League appearances against West Ham.


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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Arran H on Sat 12 Dec 2015, 6:55 am

    Going to be a very hard game against a Good Stoke side who are on a bit of a good run at the moment , Plus with us missing a lot of Key players I cant see us getting anything from Today`s game if I`m being truthful
    I know we need Valencia to play some part today but I`m agreeing with what other people have said on here on another thread - Playing him however long on the pitch against with him only just coming back from injury is asking for trouble so I would personally put him on the bench but ONLY bring him on if at all if we really need to , I would rather he played next weekend having had another weeks training under him

    Same with Song I would start him on the bench today and bring him on last 20mins or so as he himself is just coming back from injury - I would start with Obiang, Noble and Kouyate today with Antonio and Zarate ether side and maybe for a change start Jelavic upfront today with Jenks coming back in at Right back and Tomkins moving into the centre alongside Ogbonna with Cresswell at Left back and Adrian in Goal

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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Arran H on Sat 12 Dec 2015, 4:07 pm

    0-0 at half time in what was a tight first half with Stoke just having the better chances but lets hope the 2nd is better and we can nick a goal , I personally would off taken off Carroll and bring on Jelavic for 2nd half
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Sat 12 Dec 2015, 6:28 pm

    Arran H wrote:0-0 at half time in what was a tight first half with Stoke just having the better chances but lets hope the 2nd is better and we can nick a goal , I personally would off taken off Carroll and bring on Jelavic for 2nd half

    I don't want Jelavic anywhere near the pitch, he offers nothing at all.

    I thought it was risky bringing him on with Zarate still on the pitch that late in the game. Id have thought the first thing Bilic would have said to Jelavic before he came on was get close to Andy and feed off him. First flick on Carroll won Jelavic was nowhere near him.
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Sat 12 Dec 2015, 6:38 pm

    Id have taken a point if offered before the game with the form Stoke have been in.


    Both teams could have nicked it near the end so I suppose a draw is a fair result.


    It was a proper hard working performance. First half the players were constantly swapping positions to cover each other as we tried to close Stoke down.

    I was pleased with the performance but not the way we gifted them chances by giving the ball away in bad positions.

    The defence looked pretty solid apart from Tomkins who had a shocker constantly giving the ball away under no pressure.

    I thought the midfield worked there socks off as did Carroll and Antonio.

    Zarate on the other hand frustrated the fupp out of me all game. Hitting the first man with numerous corners, running down blind alleys and losing the ball in dangerous positions.

    A good point and another clean sheet.
     

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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Arran H on Sun 13 Dec 2015, 7:27 am

    I disagree with what you have said about Zarate , He has been one of our better players this season - Whatever Bilic said to him in the Summer has worked as he when he plays he works his socks off tracking back etc which is something he didn't do last year ( Maybe he didn't wanu work for Allardyce ) plus he is scoring important goals this season

    And me personally think we should be Starting Jelavic ahead of Carroll , Both are similar players which hence the reason why their are on different way lengths when playing together and Carroll is shit - yea he wins the headers but 99.9% of the time his knockdowns go to an opposition player so its no wonder our players don't really follow up his knockdowns and every now and then he gets the odd goal

    Antonio had a cracking game and on another day could of scored
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Jiggs on Sun 13 Dec 2015, 10:43 am

    A blindin' game of football only missing some goals, but two inform keepers put paid to that.

    Seeing as how results for the thugs from stoke have been of late I'm happy with the result.  However, I hope we practice taking corners for the next six days.

    How good is it to be able to cover the injured?   scarf


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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Sun 13 Dec 2015, 2:26 pm

    Arran H wrote:I disagree with what you have said about Zarate , He has been one of our better players this season - Whatever Bilic said to him in the Summer has worked as he when he plays he works his socks off tracking back etc which is something he didn't do last year ( Maybe he didn't wanu work for Allardyce ) plus he is scoring important goals this season

    And me personally think we should be Starting Jelavic ahead of Carroll , Both are similar players which hence the reason why their are on different way lengths when playing together and Carroll is shit - yea he wins the headers but 99.9% of the time his knockdowns go to an opposition player so its no wonder our players don't really follow up his knockdowns and every now and then he gets the odd goal

    Antonio had a cracking game and on another day could of scored

     
    rofl smiley rofl smiley rofl smiley

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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Arran H on Mon 14 Dec 2015, 4:17 pm

    Kray JR wrote:
    Arran H wrote:I disagree with what you have said about Zarate , He has been one of our better players this season - Whatever Bilic said to him in the Summer has worked as he when he plays he works his socks off tracking back etc which is something he didn't do last year ( Maybe he didn't wanu work for Allardyce ) plus he is scoring important goals this season

    And me personally think we should be Starting Jelavic ahead of Carroll , Both are similar players which hence the reason why their are on different way lengths when playing together and Carroll is shit - yea he wins the headers but 99.9% of the time his knockdowns go to an opposition player so its no wonder our players don't really follow up his knockdowns and every now and then he gets the odd goal

    Antonio had a cracking game and on another day could of scored

     
    rofl smiley rofl smiley rofl smiley

    Maybe it`s just me but whenever Carroll don't play the team seem to press forward more and always look to get in the area but when Carroll starts that just don't seem to be the case only the odd one or two go up and I notice that we cross the ball often when Carroll don't play then when he does

    If we had to chose a striker out of Carroll n Zarate to sell and keep .. I would deffo sell Carroll - His record is worst then Carlton Cole`s record ! Carroll's record for us in all Competitions in the FOUR years he has been with us stands as 64 games and 15 goals - that for a striker is fupping crap especially with the money we spent on him and knowing we had the chance to sign Bony instead of him makes it even worst !! Zarate is a much better striker then Carroll
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Mon 14 Dec 2015, 9:07 pm

    Cole isn't here Carroll is, his record maybe worse than Coles but Cole couldn't trap a bag of cement. Carroll, when up there on his own needs service and support. Your quote of 99.9%  of the time his knockdowns go to nobody is a joke.

    He is starting up there on his own because we have injuries and Jelavic has done nothing to justify bringing him in yet.

    Would you start Zarate up front on his own with the injuries we have ? because that is the formation that Bilic plays.

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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Arran H on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 7:17 am

    Tbh I would rather see what Zarate and Jelavic can do together then continue to play Carroll , And even when he does play alongside someone it don`t work , Valencia and Carroll don't work-Sakho and Carroll don't work and as we seeing now Zarate and Carroll don't work , He cant play upfront on his own and he cant play well with someone

    I would deffo say that Carroll has been the worst buy for us since Kieron Dyer
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 8:58 pm

    We always play one up top with two hard workers either side who are supposed to support when we are attacking to make a three.

    I haven't seen Carroll play upfront in an out and out pair, are you watching the same team ?
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Tony P on Tue 15 Dec 2015, 10:40 pm

    Kray JR wrote:We always play one up top with two hard workers either side who are supposed to support when we are attacking to make a three.

    I haven't seen Carroll play upfront in an out and out pair, are you watching the same team ?
     
    I would say "no"
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Fri 18 Dec 2015, 12:02 pm

    Carroll is out injured for one game apparently so Jelavic may get the chance to prove me wrong
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  alfiehammer on Fri 18 Dec 2015, 2:17 pm

    Frightening ^^^^


    having watched the bbc match of the day highlights, I can concede that Stoke actually had much the better of the chances.
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Fri 18 Dec 2015, 7:57 pm

    I think most of their chances came from Zarate or Tomkins losing the ball.

    Hopefully they can't play as bad as that again.

    I would have liked to have seen Samuelsen given a chance just for something different from Zarate, he looked class pre-season.
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Tony P on Sat 19 Dec 2015, 7:14 am

    Kray JR wrote:I think most of their chances came from Zarate or Tomkins losing the ball.

    Hopefully they can't play as bad as that again.

    I would have liked to have seen Samuelsen given a chance just for something different from Zarate, he looked class pre-season.
     Me too but we can't recall him until he has been there for 1 month. I feel sure we will if the injury situation doesn't improve anytime soon

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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Arran H on Sat 19 Dec 2015, 7:44 am

    It`s a shame that we sent Samuelson out on loan as this would of been a perfect opportunity for him as when he played in Pre season he looked good be interesting Sunday to see who gets Carroll`s place , I personally I`m looking forward to seeing what Jelavic can do from the start alongside Zarate

    I just don't understand why people still slate Zarate !?!?
    *He puts in more effort tracking back then Carroll ( Carroll does what Nolan did - Every now and then he will have a little jog back to try tackle )
    *He is more of threat upfront as proven that he has scored more goals then Carroll
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Kray JR on Sat 19 Dec 2015, 11:04 am

    Zarate isn't slated all the time, his recent form has just been poor. He scored a good free kick the other week and puts in a lot of chasing but that is pointless if you are going to give the ball away all the time and hit the first man with most of your corners.

    I don't get to every game but I thought that was the most I've seen Carroll run against Stoke.
    Not only chasing lost causes on his own up top but also tracking back and covering others who were forward at the time. Which led to brainless calls from around me of "what's Carroll doing back in midfield".

    You do get a lot of people make you laugh at live football "get Jelavic on he always scores" "Antonio has been brilliant he is ten times better than Moses" a few I heard recently.
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  alfiehammer on Sat 19 Dec 2015, 7:29 pm

    I
    Kray JR wrote:Zarate isn't slated all the time, his recent form has just been poor. He scored a good free kick the other week and puts in a lot of chasing but that is pointless if you are going to give the ball away all the time and hit the first man with most of your corners.

    I don't get to every game but I thought that was the most I've seen Carroll run against Stoke.
    Not only chasing lost causes on his own up top but also tracking back and covering others who were forward at the time. Which led to brainless calls from around me of "what's Carroll doing back in midfield".

    You do get a lot of people make you laugh at live football "get Jelavic on he always scores" "Antonio has been brilliant he is ten times better than Moses" a few I heard recently.
    Frightening isn't it

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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Arran H on Sun 20 Dec 2015, 7:33 am

    I know your comment probably isn't aimed at me but How I see it is Andy Carroll has had his chance to prove himself this season and I don't think he has shown that he is worth a place in the starting line up so I feel it`s now Jelavic chance to start a few a games so that he can show us what he can do when given a run of starting games like Carroll was given

    And I don't agree with people saying that Antonio is better then Moses , On his day Moses is a very good player however Antonio is also a good player who is at the moment showing us that he deserves to start ahead of Moses once Moses is back from Injury
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  alfiehammer on Sun 20 Dec 2015, 9:33 am

    If u mean Darrens post mate, I don't think it was aimed at you but the guys around Darren. 

    If Antonio is TEN TIMES better then Moses..... then either he's up there with ronaldo or Moses as bad as boa morte. Neither is accurate


    Jelavic always scores...I think he's yet to score (not that he's had much of a choice I'll grant u). He didn't really do it at hull or the end of his Everton career. I don't have any faith in jelavic personally and think Antonio is on a parity other Moses. Both lively, competent players but both replaceable by a player with greater ability and consistency then I think either would be capable of. That's a log. Term, building the team towards a top 4 finish thing. For now, both are fine and in themselves an improvement on the likes of Jarvis. 


    All IMHO
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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Jiggs on Sun 20 Dec 2015, 12:04 pm

    Oh wow!  Discussing who should play instead of whilst we have players injured. Now that's a luxury we don't normally have   woot


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    Re: West Ham United V Stoke

    Post  Tony P on Sun 20 Dec 2015, 12:04 pm

    My take on it it this............Zarate tracks back when he feels like it. There were at least two occasions against Stoke where he went AWOL and left his full back exposed. Both time either his team mates or Bilic himself had a go at him. He is not a bad player but he's not is the same league as either Payet or Lanzini IMO. 

    Andy Carroll is a good centre forward. Unfortunately his style doesn't suit the way Bilic sets up his teams. We need running into the channels and lots of movement from our player up top. Carroll just isn't that sort of player. It is not his fault. It is just the way it is. If Sakho is fit then AC should only be used as an impact sub if needed

    Jelavic is a slower less powerful version of AC IMO. He is probably more of a clinical finisher than Carroll. Maybe we will find out today?

    Victor Moses has failed so hold down a place with his parent club since he left Wigan in 2012. That must tell you something surely? He started superbly for us against Newcastle and had a decent game against Man City away. Apart from that he has been average at best

    We have not seen enough of Antonio to form an opinion if we are honest. We saw You Tube clips of him from his time at Nott'm Forest in the Championship and he looked a very exciting, direct & powerful player who scores goals. What's not to like? However, his introduction away at Man City when we were hanging on a bit was a strange one to say the least and he looked completely overawed by it all. Understandable I suppose. He then got 70 mins at Man Utd and didn't pull up any trees. His first start at home did show us a lot of what he thought we were buying. He worked hard both ways, took his full back on and wasn't afraid to get his shots away; and on another day could easily have scored. He reminds me of Marlon Harewood at the top of his game. He is raw. Technically not top drawer but deserves his chance. It is up to him now. When Moses is fit I wonder if Bilic has to bring him back in as part of the terms of the loan?

    We really are down to the bare bones against Swansea today. Time for all the players who believe they should be starting - Collins, Zarate, Antonio & Jelavic to step up to the plate

    COYI !!

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