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    Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

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    westhamonkey
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    Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 2:59 pm


    another glorious away fixture thanks to our wonderful new home...

    players walking out onto the pitch.

    naturally Noble is out first and presumably captain - please explain why.

    in traditional West Ham fashion, Winston Reid signs a 6 year contract and then injures himself in the warm-up and won't play today.
    Ogbonna replaces.

    Rice plays from the stat

    so does Fonte

    Chicharito is alone up front - so expect us to play the West Ham way i.e. no service at all to the lone striker.

    watching this via the new rip-off 'gold' service from NBC - let's get this done.
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    westhamonkey
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 3:14 pm


    well...

    Soton haven't scored a home goal since April... so of course, as we so often do, we gift them exactly what they're looking for.

    Fonte allows Gabbiadini to run in behind him and sit the ball simply past Hart

    0-1 after ten minutes.


    ooh, there's a lovely idea... Chicharito (our lone striker) out on the wing, crossing the ball into the 6 yard area.


    apologies for being a touch on the negative side this morning... but we really are our own worst enemies.

    this is not a team looking to bounce back form a 4-0 opening day arse kicking.
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 3:29 pm


    Autowhatisface takes a knock in the cheek jumping for a ball.... on the ground looking in trouble

    in the mean time Noble goes in on the ground all his studs in the air - very lucky to escape with just a yellow card, not sure how the Ref didn't send him off for that as he was nowhere near the ball.

    back to regular play... i.e. Soton coming at us in waves and we're lucky to scramble it away
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 3:36 pm


    Autonouvic - runs up behind a Soton player, elbows him in the side of the neck. Instant red card... and a 3 match ban coming up for violent conduct.

    As I said, Noble is lucky to be on a yellow and not in the showers already.

    Goal down

    playing with ten men after 34 minutes.

    Yes folks, it's as bad as I'm making it sound.
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 3:38 pm


    And now Ogbonna and Fonte combine to give away a penalty

    0-2

    he even hits Hart's foot with the penalty but it still goes in
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 3:47 pm


    well whaddaya know?

    Antonio demonstrates his strength and resolve. Holds the ball up on the edge of the area, turns, shoots...

    keeper can only parry the ball away

    it lands at the feet of Chicharito who slots it into the net...

    we're the worst team in football and suddenly we're what people would normally describe as 'right back in it'

    1-2

    so our goal difference after 1 1/2 games is now only -5
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 4:30 pm


    sorry for no posts in the 2nd half... work keeps calling me despite it being 8am on a saturday...

    we're actually slightly better this half - in the sense that we've not conceded any goals or had anyone sent off.


    I'll be honest... Hart is no improvement on either Randolph or Adrian - and now we lost Randolf and Hart will be gone at the end of the season.

    Fonte - is useless and should go

    Ogbonna - is useless and should go

    Ayew - is useless and should go

    Noble - is useless and should go

    Zabaleta - doesn't seem much of an improvement over what we had

    Autounovic - is turning into a liability

    Antonio - looks class. Wish he was fit

    Chicharito - must wonder what he's doing here

    apart for those last two (excluding those not playing) we're really pretty pants and I am at the stage where I'd not be sad to see the back of all or any of them.
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 4:33 pm


    Well how you like them apples.

    I was just about to toss off another snarky comment about Chcharito being on the wing crossing in a ball...

    then a few moments later... Cresswell plays it in... Sahko heads almost into the net and there's that frisky little goal poacher... sticking in the ball as it comes off the bar...

    no way do we deserve this... but I'll take it

    2-2

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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 4:41 pm



    how do we have 6 across the back and Soton still manage to have open players on either side of the park?

    ten minutes to go - it would really be shitty to lose this now but it's nail bitingly tough
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 4:47 pm


    ball in the net... fortunately the ref thinks because you bump into a keeper that it's a foul...

    Hart is a pretty shitty keeper.

    almost lost it 3-2

    but 3 mins plus injury time... this will be written up as a sterling effort by a determined team

    but it's honestly just a lucky escape by a bunch of no-hopers who were saved by a consulate goal poacher.
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 4:57 pm


    And there you have it... this is the west ham way...

    we fupp everything up...

    we rally to give people hope...

    then we throw it all away at the end

    91 minutes... the softest (probably most bullshit decision) penalty call... Austin scores...

    so everything was for nothing.

    All the post match will be about how poor the penalty decision was - which it was - and how bravely we fought back from 2-0 down... but the real story is that we really got what we deserved...

    we were poor... bad selection, bad tactics, bad performances

    Hart is shit

    Ogbonna is shit

    Fonte - shit

    Noble is pointless

    Autounovic is out for 3 games so what does it matter what he's like

    If it weren't for Antonio and Chicharito we'd have lost this by probably more than last week

    2 games in - zero points & -5 goal difference
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  Kray JR on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 7:53 pm

    Not sure what Hart is supposed to do with that defence in front of him.

    He will put Adrian in for the Cheltenham game and keep a clean sheet and everyone will be screaming for him to start in the league.

    We can't defend and Slav only has one system and his selections can't play that system.
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sat 19 Aug 2017, 10:44 pm

    Kray JR wrote:Not sure what Hart is supposed to do with that defence in front of him.

    He will put Adrian in for the Cheltenham game and keep a clean sheet and everyone will be screaming for him to start in the league.

    We can't defend and Slav only has one system and his selections can't play that system.

    I don't disagree with you about what's a keeper supposed to do with a shitty defense... the best keeper in the world would struggle with our shambles in front of them...

    buuuuuuuut.........

    just looking at Hart.

    He conceded 115 goals at Torino last season.

    He flapped at balls today that he should and could have easily taken hold of and changed the direction of play rather than flap out to a Soton player...

    He does not command his area.

    He does not look like he has much, if any positional awareness outside of being struck with a long range shot to make it look like he's a competent showstopper.

    The woodwork saved us more times today than Hart did.

    My criticism of him - and it's more a criticism of the club in terms of their policy direction - is that we had two decent keepers (as we both agree, no keeper would look good with our defense in front of them) but the club then decided to take Hart on loan... on loan, not a permanent signing so you have to start from the perspective that he's a short term option... but then the shortarse boss man gobs his mouth off about how Hart is the best keeper he's ever had (see how many goals Hart shipped at Torino) and hey presto... the better (in my opinion) of our two keepers gets sold and the remaining one understandably sounds less than thrilled to be stuck at a club who so clearly don't value him.

    So from an "I love West Ham till I die' perspective - I find it hard to support the decision to upset our entire goalkeeping staff, ship out 50% of our first team keepers for a loanee who has had a much less than stellar season overseas.

    And on top of all that... Hart doesn't fill me with any confidence as our first team keeper. He was pants in pre-season in germany and has been pretty pants in our first two games.

    Whether it's entirely his fault or not, he already looks like he's trying to break his record form Torino of goals conceded - and no matter how much our defense is shit... I'm not gonna absolve Hart of his part in this fiasco either.
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  Kray JR on Sun 20 Aug 2017, 8:51 am

    I'd still trust Hart more than I would Adrian so far.
    Very similar keepers both can pull off the unbelievable
    saves but you expect them to make a cock up at some
    point. From what I heard of preseason Hart is very vocal
    which is not something I saw of Adrian. Maybe Hart picked
    up a bit of Italian whilst he was over there which means
    somebody may be able to communicate with Ogbonna easier,
    because he looks in another world most of the time.

    If Slav had gone into this season with no new keeper
    I think he would have been slated even more after rotating
    the 2 last season due to dips in form.

    Sullivan should just keep his mouth shut as he isn't capable
    of saying the right thing.
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  Tony P on Sun 20 Aug 2017, 9:28 am

    westhamonkey wrote:
    ball in the net... fortunately the ref thinks because you bump into a keeper that it's a foul...

    Hart is a pretty shitty keeper.

    almost lost it 3-2

    but 3 mins plus injury time... this will be written up as a sterling effort by a determined team

    but it's honestly just a lucky escape by a bunch of no-hopers who were saved by a consulate goal poacher.
    I am getting pretty fed up with the Hart-bashing. Just what facts have you got to support this statement? He is playing in front of one of the worst defences I have seen at this club for a long time. Tell me which one of the Man Utd or Southampton goals you think he should have saved?
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  westhamonkey on Sun 20 Aug 2017, 6:54 pm

    Tony P wrote:
    westhamonkey wrote:
    ball in the net... fortunately the ref thinks because you bump into a keeper that it's a foul...

    Hart is a pretty shitty keeper.

    almost lost it 3-2

    but 3 mins plus injury time... this will be written up as a sterling effort by a determined team

    but it's honestly just a lucky escape by a bunch of no-hopers who were saved by a consulate goal poacher.
    I am getting pretty fed up with the Hart-bashing. Just what facts have you got to support this statement? He is playing in front of one of the worst defences I have seen at this club for a long time. Tell me which one of the Man Utd or Southampton goals you think he should have saved?

    Typical tony... but oh well... here's my response.

    My contribution to what you call the "Hart bashing" comes from the following perspective(s)

    Not all of my bashing of him is even his actual fault, so here goes...

    The club decided to pick up Hart. They picked him up on a loan. In many ways I've no problem with loanees. But a loan is a loan. they are different to permanent signings.
    So we have (had) two keepers - Randolf and Adrian. Both are good, bad or inconsistent... but neither were terrible.
    So bringing in a high profile loanee kinda means they're gonna be thrown into the first team. So one of Adrian and Randolph looked like they were gonna get dropped down the pecking order.
    Now Randolph has been our regular keeper recently, so it looked like he was gonna get the shaft. And he did.
    The little gobshite Sullivan decided to go public saying Hart was the best keeper he'd ever worked with - which was absolutely the quickest and easiest way to really piss off any goalkeeper you'd ever worked with and especially the keepers you currently had.
    So the arrival of a loan player - concentrate on the loan part not that Hart might have played for England - just seemed to me an exercise in upsetting the applecart - and for seemingly little positive reason.

    A loan player arrival is going to completely upset the goalkeeping department - not Hart's fault.

    So the club sells Randolph, has to do a major PR exercise to keep Adrian happy otherwise we'd have been stuck with a loanee and a trainee as our only goalkeeping options.

    So my 'bashing' is in part the fault of the club, not Hart.

    But that's only half the story.

    I watched some pre-season games (yay, thanks internet) Yes. Hart shouted a lot, in a small stadium with hardly any crowd it's impossible not to hear him. But he wasn't good. Wasn't good at all. He was directly responsible for conceding goals - the pre-season evidence did not support the notion that this was someone who should waltz into the first team and completely upset the apple cart.

    In one game we were kinda doing okay. At a point in the game and a point in the play when we were in no danger and under no pressure, Hart played the most horrible pass to a defender, put him in real danger, the opposition grabbed the ball as our defender tried to catch up with it, and slotted it past the out of position Hart... set the tone for the entire game. He was as solely responsible for that loss as anyone could ever be.

    Yes, the whole team were poor against Man Utd and Soton... but Hart has done nothing in those two games to make himself look like anything other than an average at best keeper on his way out of a career.

    He flaps at balls... punches when he should catch. His positioning is suspect (which probably contributes to the previous issues) and his distribution of the ball is awful...

    Ignore his 'stats' from the first two games - no keeper is gonna look good when conceding 7 goals in 2 games... but look at this link from squawka - his pass accuracy is 44%. Okay... defend him by saying a long goal kick is easily intercepted by the opposition... but the keeper also gets the free ride of passing the ball to his defenders with no one else around... so to have a pass accuracy that embarrassing in two games is HORRIFYING.

    Which probably explains the European debacle I mentioned above.

    Here's a link to squawka... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    Here's some more links to his time in Torino...

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    sure... maybe it's all a coincidence and this is just evidence of an Independent witch hunt against the poor fella.. but consider these two tit-bits if you don't wanna read the whole thing...

    "Hart was directly at fault for Crotone’s equalising goal in the 1-1 draw, as he came haring off his line to punch a cross but missed the ball, gifting an easy equalising goal to substitute Simeon Nwankwo." (see a common pattern emerging?)

    "The England number one has now conceded almost 50 goals in 30 league appearances this season and has made the second highest number of errors leading to goals in Serie A this season"

    I know these just confirm my position... but I found them after I'd already been forming my own opinion of Hart and realized that I wasn't just making stuff up.

    So you can be as incensed about the "Hart bashing" as you are but it doesn't change the fact that his arrival at West Ham has been pretty much a disaster so far... and if he is just a one season loan signing then that just makes it all the more heartbreaking and inexcusable.

    Don't forget, we're the club of Mervyn Day (before he got married and went off the boil), Phil Parkes, Ludek Miklosko - we know good keepers when we see them... but we're not seeing one at the moment.


    Last edited by westhamonkey on Sun 20 Aug 2017, 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : because of my terrible typing skills)
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    Kray JR
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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

    Post  Kray JR on Thu 24 Aug 2017, 9:56 am

    westhamonkey wrote:
    Tony P wrote:
    westhamonkey wrote:
    ball in the net... fortunately the ref thinks because you bump into a keeper that it's a foul...

    Hart is a pretty shitty keeper.

    almost lost it 3-2

    but 3 mins plus injury time... this will be written up as a sterling effort by a determined team

    but it's honestly just a lucky escape by a bunch of no-hopers who were saved by a consulate goal poacher.
    I am getting pretty fed up with the Hart-bashing. Just what facts have you got to support this statement? He is playing in front of one of the worst defences I have seen at this club for a long time. Tell me which one of the Man Utd or Southampton goals you think he should have saved?

    Typical tony... but oh well... here's my response.

    My contribution to what you call the "Hart bashing" comes from the following perspective(s)

    Not all of my bashing of him is even his actual fault, so here goes...

    The club decided to pick up Hart. They picked him up on a loan. In many ways I've no problem with loanees. But a loan is a loan. they are different to permanent signings.
    So we have (had) two keepers - Randolf and Adrian. Both are good, bad or inconsistent... but neither were terrible.
    So bringing in a high profile loanee kinda means they're gonna be thrown into the first team. So one of Adrian and Randolph looked like they were gonna get dropped down the pecking order.
    Now Randolph has been our regular keeper recently, so it looked like he was gonna get the shaft. And he did.
    The little gobshite Sullivan decided to go public saying Hart was the best keeper he'd ever worked with - which was absolutely the quickest and easiest way to really piss off any goalkeeper you'd ever worked with and especially the keepers you currently had.
    So the arrival of a loan player - concentrate on the loan part not that Hart might have played for England - just seemed to me an exercise in upsetting the applecart - and for seemingly little positive reason.

    A loan player arrival is going to completely upset the goalkeeping department - not Hart's fault.

    So the club sells Randolph, has to do a major PR exercise to keep Adrian happy otherwise we'd have been stuck with a loanee and a trainee as our only goalkeeping options.

    So my 'bashing' is in part the fault of the club, not Hart.

    But that's only half the story.

    I watched some pre-season games (yay, thanks internet) Yes. Hart shouted a lot, in a small stadium with hardly any crowd it's impossible not to hear him. But he wasn't good. Wasn't good at all. He was directly responsible for conceding goals- - the pre-season evidence did not support the notion that this was someone who should waltz into the first team and completely upset the apple cart.

    In one game we were kinda doing okay. At a point in the game and a point in the play when we were in no danger and under no pressure, Hart played the most horrible pass to a defender, put him in real danger, the opposition grabbed the ball as our defender tried to catch up with it, and slotted it past the out of position Hart... set the tone for the entire game. He was as solely responsible for that loss as anyone could ever be.

    Yes, the whole team were poor against Man Utd and Soton... but Hart has done nothing in those two games to make himself look like anything other than an average at best keeper on his way out of a career.

    He flaps at balls... punches when he should catch. His positioning is suspect (which probably contributes to the previous issues) and his distribution of the ball is awful...

    Ignore his 'stats' from the first two games - no keeper is gonna look good when conceding 7 goals in 2 games... but look at this link from squawka - his pass accuracy is 44%. Okay... defend him by saying a long goal kick is easily intercepted by the opposition... but the keeper also gets the free ride of passing the ball to his defenders with no one else around... so to have a pass accuracy that embarrassing in two games is HORRIFYING.

    Which probably explains the European debacle I mentioned above.

    Here's a link to squawka... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    Here's some more links to his time in Torino...

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

    sure... maybe it's all a coincidence and this is just evidence of an Independent witch hunt against the poor fella.. but consider these two tit-bits if you don't wanna read the whole thing...

    "Hart was directly at fault for Crotone’s equalising goal in the 1-1 draw, as he came haring off his line to punch a cross but missed the ball, gifting an easy equalising goal to substitute Simeon Nwankwo." (see a common pattern emerging?)

    "The England number one has now conceded almost 50 goals in 30 league appearances this season and has made the second highest number of errors leading to goals in Serie A this season"

    I know these just confirm my position... but I found them after I'd already been forming my own opinion of Hart and realized that I wasn't just making stuff up.

    So you can be as incensed about the "Hart bashing" as you are but it doesn't change the fact that his arrival at West Ham has been pretty much a disaster so far... and if he is just a one season loan signing then that just makes it all the more heartbreaking and inexcusable.

    Don't forget, we're the club of Mervyn Day (before he got married and went off the boil), Phil Parkes, Ludek Miklosko - we know good keepers when we see them... but we're not seeing one at the moment.

    I watched all the pre-season games available as well and cant remember him being directly responsible for a goal in those games and I am always critical of goals conceded. He only played against Werder Bremen in the 2-2 draw and the defeat against Man City I think.

    Its sad I know but I've just watched those goals again from both games and couldn't find the one you are talking about.

    There was a goal against Man City where Hart played the ball to Ogbonna who turned and played a ball to Masuaku who was day dreaming and a goal came from that but that's hardly Harts fault.

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    Re: Soton vs West Ham 8/19/17

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