The Fat Controller Has To Go

Outplayed and more importantly completely outclassed by an attractive Swansea, who's entire team cost almost the same price as our new signing from relegated wolves. Just look at the two managers, Laudrup = composed, articulate and elegant, Fat Controller (Alladyce) = Slovenly Predictable, Inept, Hoof it up Northern Monkey, and he dares to even mention there is no such thing as "The West Ham Way" We were lucky to get promoted last season The game has moved on and Swansea without our resources are testimony to this and Fat Sams antiquated and ugly type of management and football should be resigned to the scrap heap, remember Lou Macari, the last time we had a lousy Northern Monkey in charge with no respect for who and what we are, I rest my case. WE ARE "MOORE THAN JUST A FOOTBALL TEAM so Get The Fat Controller out now and Di Canio back where he belongs before it becomes even more embarrassing than it all ready is,
Irons In The Soul
Jason

I'm sorry mate, but your talking total knee jerk reactionary bollicks.

Di Canio would do nothing but send us back down to the Championship where our current financial plight would explode and the club could well disappear in a cloud of claret and blue smoke.

Swansea play the way they do because they've practiced it for years, it started with Martinez and has just continued. They don't need big name players. They sign players that can adapt and adopt their style.

I didn't notice much Hoof It Up either. I did notice Jussi throwing the ball out and the back four playing it forward to the midfield, out to the wing and Jarvis putting crosses into the box. If that's your definition of Hoof It Up well, I dispare.

I did notice that we were out played, we made school boy errors and generally had a bad day at the office.

That's football, it happens. Have a moan, have a pint, go the chippy and go home. It'll be another game next weekend and who knows what'll happen then.

Though your sentiments are shared often about the style of football, and indeed how seemingly neffective it can be, including last season, there is far too much time to go to warrant this call for Sam's head. We all hate losing and I presume we all, equally felt elated last week at Villa.

We all have belittled the style of Bolton and Stoke (under Allardyce and Public respectively) but one thing is sure, nobody likes playing against teams with a direct physical ethos. They disguise this fear by belittling the style but in reality-its hard to play against.

This 'West Ham way is a rose tinted nostalgia of a bygone era, that didn't really happen that successfully over decades-it was successful for a few seasons in the 60's. And the game has massively changed and this 'right' of a beautiful game falls outside anyone under 45's memory.

Sam is the man entrusted, rightly or wrongly, and to call for his head one loss into a season is pretty ridiculous. You don't sack a manager for one bad result after allowing him to spend £20m in the summer.

I realise the post is made with 90% dislike for the man and his methods but you also have to look at the business heads of the club and I suspect they know more than any of us which is the right direction and when it needs changing-they especially would have learned that with Avram Grant.

17th is a successful season if one is not deluded.

knee jerk bollicks of the highest order, go away and soak ya head and come back when you've grown up and looked at football in the real world and not in championship manager ffs!

Welcome aboard HH66 , Good first post and as you can see you got the natives going already , maybe a post to introduce yourself would be a good idea , anyway stick around everyone is entitled to their opinion , thats what Forums are all about

Sir Ian wrote:knee jerk bollicks of the highest order, go away and soak ya head and come back when you've grown up and looked at football in the real world and not in championship manager ffs!

Hes 46 dude

'My manager wanted Andy Carroll, so we backed him.

'Andy was the perfect player for him and the style of football we play.


Ambitious: Co-owner David Sullivan also wants Wolves winger Matt Jarvis

'We play a lot of high balls, a lot of crosses - quite exciting football, not just humping it but clever crossing - and Sam wanted Jarvis to supply the crosses because he is a fantastic crosser.

All the stats show that this brand of football is on the decline yet our astute owner states in the national press that "We play a lot of high balls, a lot of crosses" If this is the Vision and Mission of our Manager and owners then we are bang in trouble and going backwards not forwards,Yes we will always be emotionally connected to OUR West Ham and will support them who ever owns and Manages the club but we shouldn't have to tolerate and pay for an outdated and ugly brand of football

But you can only look at the situation as it is. We have Sam, Gold, Sullivan er al. How West Ham benefit from them is a fans only perspective we can look at. If, buts and maybe are all very well and is the bread and butter of media and fans alike BUT none of these own and control the club and business.

The squad has been reformed and been rebuilt in a Sam mode, we could not afford to just throw that away and bring in someone to turn this big physical non-mobile team, into something we have, in all honesty, never been in our memory lifetime. We have always yo-yo'd, ridden our luck, run out of it or just simply not performed. But to throw that away and bring in a fluid, pact, technically superior team is something we simply do not have the resources to do. Only 3 teams have managed attainable success in my lifetime, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal to a degree, Man C and Chelsea have invested huge amounts to make themselves 'players'.

Our midfield is lacking greatly in any pace or ability to mix it with ANY team in the Prem, Diane and. Diarra may well help this. Nolan is undeniably a huge asset on the pitch for his voice, his game play is a little off the pace. Noble is just Noble, as good as we have but any system other than this one would make him look worse and show up his frailties.

We can moan but we can't change it. If we couldn't moan, would we enjoy it more? I doubt it sometimes.

Differing opinions. The views of two Swansea supporters...

"In the first half their up and unders caused us considerable discomfort I thought. Then at half time he brought on Vaz Te for Tomkins and they tried to play a litle bit more football which played right into our hands.
- Joe_Bradshaw

"Ron Greenwood must be turning in his grave. Sam's tactics: Plan A - lump it up to the striker; Plan B - Jarvis to the byline and cross it to the striker; Plan C - just gerrit into t'mix. Very sad to see a club with a proud tradition of playing football turn into a team of thugs playing hoofball. Stoke v West Ham? Christ on a bike..."
- Warwick Hunt

Same as your views HungryHammer, but the first quote would suggest that Fat Sam's tactics were working, until the pretty stuff started?

I think he was bought in to get us up, the Allerdyce way - job done. I think we keep him to ensure safety, the Allerdyce way - tried and tested. That might take just two years - the length of his contract.

It's upsetting to note, that the second quote refers to the legend Ron Greenwood turning in his grave and compares us to Stoke. But then RG would never have let the club get into such a mess in the first place. However, if he had taken over the club in the position that we were last season........who knows

Tend to agree our tactic looked good in the first half except for giving them two goals it could have been us in front at half time.

Tactic change in the second half but it was too late by then.

Bit early to be calling for Sam head yet. I think he can keep us up however the football will not be pretty with the squad we have.

Personally I thought Sam employed the tactic of pressing Swansea way up in their own half & it was working up until the first mistake. That's not playing long ball but using the players effectively to try & negate the Swans passing game.

There is a point of view that you are not really playing football unless you match these ball playing teams - Barca, Spain, Swansea - at their own game. What is wrong with effectively employing a tactic to put pressure on your opponents & forcing them to change their style or lose their shape?

Once we were 2 goals behind we had try & get back in to the game by whatever means, & that meant the battering ram which almost worked just before half-time. It also meant we left gaps which allowed Swansea to look prettier than they did in the opening phase.

Sorry but it has to be a vote of no Confidence,
For too long we have been raped, pillaged mis-managed and badly run and the Paradigm of relegation in 2002 /03 is where we are now with Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber running the club assisted by Cruella de Ville and The Fat Controller and yet it didnt have to be like this, heres my story,

I was working at a very famous London Hotel Restaurant when Dave and Dave took over the club,
I was checking the reservation Diary one afternoon and saw that D.S, had booked a table for dinner that evening, I was so excited, Organised the best table, gave him Champers on arrival, extra course, full VIP treatment, and was chatting away talking West ham etc. When it came to Coffee, i dived down to my wine cellar, emptied my giant West ham mug of the pens and corkscrews that were kept in it, washed it out and served D.S. His coffee in it. he then sat me down at the table and asked me "Who do you think should be our new manager" to which I replied, "what do you mean new manager, you have to give Zola another season". He then said "what if it wasnt Zola, who would you have", I replied, ^ I suppose the usual suspects are available", i even mentioned Fat Sam amongst others before saying "But why not bring di canio back to w**k alongside Zola", What happens Avram fuckin Grant happens, , and still The Daves had a chance to change the Paradigm when in January, the Morning of Arsenal at home, I got a text first thing saying Grant out Oneil in, switched on sky sports news and the story was all over it, went to the game,Grant threw his scarf into the crowd, we were shit as per that season loosing 3-0 and correct me if im wrong but Martin Oneil wanted to come to us but tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber managed to nause it all up by leaking the story, If Oneil had taken the job, we wouldnt be having this dialogue now but he thought Im not gonna w**k for these clowns, Grant stayed and the inevitable relegation in sued, and any remaining, quality in the squad was sold and here we are at ground fuckin Zero, lumping it forward with the Fat Controller, devoid of quality while every one else seems to be evolving the game and moving forward we, as stated by the owner in my above post "Play a lot of high balls and crosses" hence the pessimistic posts and the no Confidence and we the fans pay the ultimate price by having to pay to watch a type of football which everyone else has or is moving on from and will in my opinion only get us laughed at and relegated, i hope and pray im calling this completely wrong and we will cruise through the season playing ugly and getting enough results to se us safe

I, personally, was glad MoN walked away. I cannot see what all the fuss is with him.

Leicester, he inherited a good squad of players, carried on where former, (better), manager had left off. Jumped ship when Celtic and their money came calling.

Celtic, ANYONE, even my mum, could have achieved what he did there with the amount of money they threw at the team. However, when the money ran out, he jumped ship.

Let's jump forward to Villa. Did well, while he was able to spend the owners money. Once the owner said enough is enough, you have to sell to spend, MoN spat his dummy out and left.

If the Board had appointed MoN in place of Grant, I do not for one minute think the outcome would have been any different. We still would have gone down. We would still have had a squad that wasn't good enough. We would still have been saddled with £100 Million of debt, we still would have had aging below average players on very high wages. We would still be staring down the barrel of financial ruin. You think what's happened at Portsmouth is bad, we could have made them look like they'd gone a little overdrawn.

As for the style of play, I have yet to see a team in the premier league not use a pacey winger to cross the ball into the box. EVERY team does it. We do not by pass the midfield by hoofing it forward, a la Bolton of the 90's. Unfortunately, Sam is stuck with that and will continue to be whilst the likes of your good self perpetuate it.

D & D have admitted they made a mistake appointing Grant. What more do you want?

D & D have made huge inroads into what was our spiraling debt. It is now under control and being reduced and managed correctly.

I personally am of the opinion that we have the right board of directors and the right manager. For now and for the foreseeable future.

"The West Ham Way", what is it? I am 50 and I can't remember seeing it since '86, if I'm honest.

Sometimes, you have to see the bigger picture and sit back and take it in. If you can't do that and want instant success then perhaps Chelsea or Manchester City would suit you better.

Blakey wrote:I, personally, was glad MoN walked away. I cannot see what all the fuss is with him.

Leicester, he inherited a good squad of players, carried on where former, (better), manager had left off. Jumped ship when Celtic and their money came calling.

Celtic, ANYONE, even my mum, could have achieved what he did there with the amount of money they threw at the team. However, when the money ran out, he jumped ship.

Let's jump forward to Villa. Did well, while he was able to spend the owners money. Once the owner said enough is enough, you have to sell to spend, MoN spat his dummy out and left.

If the Board had appointed MoN in place of Grant, I do not for one minute think the outcome would have been any different. We still would have gone down. We would still have had a squad that wasn't good enough. We would still have been saddled with £100 Million of debt, we still would have had aging below average players on very high wages. We would still be staring down the barrel of financial ruin. You think what's happened at Portsmouth is bad, we could have made them look like they'd gone a little overdrawn.

As for the style of play, I have yet to see a team in the premier league not use a pacey winger to cross the ball into the box. EVERY team does it. We do not by pass the midfield by hoofing it forward, a la Bolton of the 90's. Unfortunately, Sam is stuck with that and will continue to be whilst the likes of your good self perpetuate it.

D & D have admitted they made a mistake appointing Grant. What more do you want?

D & D have made huge inroads into what was our spiraling debt. It is now under control and being reduced and managed correctly.

I personally am of the opinion that we have the right board of directors and the right manager. For now and for the foreseeable future.

"The West Ham Way", what is it? I am 50 and I can't remember seeing it since '86, if I'm honest.

Sometimes, you have to see the bigger picture and sit back and take it in. If you can't do that and want instant success then perhaps Chelsea or Manchester City would suit you better.

People love to slag off D & D but dont seem to consider what could have happened should they not have come in when they did.

I heard one of the Sky comms saying that this is one of the most important seasons with regards to staying in the premier league due to new tv deals coming in, I think D & D will do all they can to ensure we stay up this season even though that probably means putting more of their own money in.

Bangs head on floor.


What Blakey and me old man said.

Dont get me wrong, I know they inherited a business in financial meltdown, yes they are frugal and savvy at managing the purse strings as comes naturally to them and we are more financially stable than before they took over but unfortunately their footballing brains are not as astute as their fiscal brains as they managed to relegate us in their first season with Grant then lumbered us with Fat Boy Slim, sorry Sam as a result of this in their second and we are now a one trick pony playing an out dated version of the game which I can only see leading to more heart break and humiliation for us the fans.

I agree with Blakey, Sire, Kray Jnr and skinny burd

Hungry Hammer 66 wrote:Dont get me wrong, I know they inherited a business in financial meltdown, yes they are frugal and savvy at managing the purse strings as comes naturally to them and we are more financially stable than before they took over but unfortunately their footballing brains are not as astute as their fiscal brains as they managed to relegate us in their first season with Grant then lumbered us with Fat Boy Slim, sorry Sam as a result of this in their second and we are now a one trick pony playing an out dated version of the game which I can only see leading to more heart break and humiliation for us the fans.

You haven't seen many games then I take it.

Blakey wrote:

Hungry Hammer 66 wrote:Dont get me wrong, I know they inherited a business in financial meltdown, yes they are frugal and savvy at managing the purse strings as comes naturally to them and we are more financially stable than before they took over but unfortunately their footballing brains are not as astute as their fiscal brains as they managed to relegate us in their first season with Grant then lumbered us with Fat Boy Slim, sorry Sam as a result of this in their second and we are now a one trick pony playing an out dated version of the game which I can only see leading to more heart break and humiliation for us the fans.

You haven't seen many games then I take it.

ive seen my share over the years, thankfully only a hand full under the fat controller

So, over last season as so far this, out of a potential 40 - 50 games you have seen what, 3, 4, 5?

I really don't think that qualifies you to make comment on how the team is playing, does it, if your honest with yourself.

Had you been a season ticket holder or someone that watches every week either online or on television, I may have been able to take your comments seriously.

On what then are you basing your very strong critique of the playing style on? Match Of The Day / Football League Show coverage?

Or, have you just jumped on the Big Sam plays hoofball bandwagon?

How about this:-

Jussi throws out to Tomkins, pass to McCartney, pass to Diarra, pass to Noble, to Nolan, to Noble, who crosses to Jarvis who runs down the wing and puts a cross into the 18 yard box, Cole nods it down for Nolan to fire a shot towards goal, saved by **insert opposition 'keeper**.

THAT is what you can expect for the rest of the season, or variations on the theme and the keeper wont always save them. If that constitutes 'Hoofball' then I apologise and I must have misunderstood what football is all about for the last 40 years. The coaching courses I have been on must have been wrong and the teams I have run must have been doing it wrong, (2 league titles and a cup win).

Admin wrote:

Sir Ian wrote:knee jerk bollicks of the highest order, go away and soak ya head and come back when you've grown up and looked at football in the real world and not in championship manager ffs!

Hes 46 dude

well perhaps he should know better than to talk like a spoilt 5 yr old who just lost his shiny new toy!

I love all of this bollicks people spew about the 'hoof it and hope' and 'long ball' game...

this 'new' chappy is even slagging using a winger like Jarvis to play balls into the box. Seriously?

one of the greatest goals of all time was scored by Trevor sinclair bombing down the wong... crossing it and DiCanio slamming a volley into the back of the net... what was it... maybe 3 or at most 4 touches from goalkeeper to back of the net...

Yeah... anyone in their right mind would hate that finguck style of football.

And whilst I still have my suspicions about the 2 Daves... figuring they're happy to invest in the club until such time as they can flog Upton Pork to reclaim their investment then pocket a nice profit while leaving us in a big drafty rented home and no assets other than the players on the pitch and a longstanding hatred of Harry Redknap.

But you know what...

It don't matter.

BFSA doesn't play the 'hoof it and hope' as much as people think. Watch any season round up of bolton goals... most of them came from open play.

Also the 2 Daves inherited a financial crisis that makes the current fiscal situation of many european countries look peachy.

Any other course of action in the current circumstances would in all honesty probably see us in the same position as either Portsmouth of Rangers... and i wouldn't wish that on us or my worst enemy.

Yes, hiring Grant was a HUGE and epic fail.

But hiring DiCanio could easily be as bad... all he's done at managerial level is prove he can get sent off as frequently as he could on the pitch (and he's one of my favorite all-time players... so it's not like i have any axe to grind or don't feel the love for him...) but sensible heads must prevail.

Yes, there's things that befuddle the mind about West Ham...

why do we insist on playing Carlton Cole as a striker?

why do we insist on playing a 4-5-1 formation that doesn't suit our players or tactics?

why sell a striker who scored 3 in 3 in pre-season less than a year after buying him?

why did we buy Piquionne?

why don't we just tear up Piquionne's contract?

why do players like cole, nolan, noble, etc seem to get picked week in and week out regardless of their performances?

but the bottom line is...

we're currently in safer financial hands with having the 2 Daves in charge than pretty much anyone else

we're currently in safer managerial hands with BFSA (regardless of people's personal feelings towards him) than we were under Grant, Curbs even Zola. Martin O'Neil? Do me a favor... would we rather be in Sunderland's shoes? I think not.

we're currently playing better football than we have in almost the entirety of the last ten years... yes, it's not pretty, yes, there are times when - like saturday - we get shown up... but over all... we're more consistent and winning more games than we have since... since I don't even know...

So... yes... things could be better (and hopefully before too long they will be) but they could also be so overwhelmingly worse that it doesn't bear thinking about.

^^^^^^^I'm sure I said all that^^^^^^^^^^^^

Blakey wrote:^^^^^^^I'm sure I said all that^^^^^^^^^^^^

ah yes... but not looking as devastatingly handsome or erudite as I do when I say it...

mottinghammer wrote:I agree with Blakey, Sire, Kray Jnr and skinny burd

Wot about me.....you cad!