West Ham United FC V Newcastle

Make or break game.

big big game... fortunately NBC has sorted their shit out and put the game(s) back on TV so I can record it and watch later as I gotta be out early tomorrow.

we need to win this - everyone knows this, unfortunately so do Newcastle (and they need a win too)

Heading up to Dub to watch the game with The Dublin Hammers,
Can't really call this, all 3 results possible,
COYI's

Will be setting out myself soon. I agree with HH66, with no premonitions on the outcome.

COYI   

Shocking defending yet again

0-2, crap defending..

I just can not be arsed with this shower of shit anymore

Defence is a joke but now we have a life line COYI

Well now it's two up front with Carroll & Cole and Morrison in midfield... COYI

Put up a bit of a fight in the second but it just was,nt good enuff , two open goals that should of been put away . Certainly looked better with two up front so how about it at home Sam .......... one up front at home dont rock my boat

I dont think two upfront can save us now, our defence is shocking.

Sam will come out and bleat on about all the injuries we have but if he had spent more wisely or used the odd young defender to give them experience throughout the season he would have more options.

Instead he would rather go through a season with experienced past it so called pros playing out of position and hoping we could nick enough wins to stay up.

Charlie Ham wrote:Make or break game.

We broke

Kray JR wrote:I dont think two upfront can save us now, our defence is shocking.

Sam will come out and bleat on about all the injuries we have but if he had spent more wisely or used the odd young defender to give them experience throughout the season he would have more options.

Instead he would rather go through a season with experienced past it so called pros playing out of position and hoping we could nick enough wins to stay up.

Especially when one of them is Carlton fookin Cole ........ Me and Abbi were two feet off the ground, arms raised shouting Yeeeeeeeees!!!! seconds before he missed again today.   

I don't think that the defence is necessarily the biggest problem. They are continually exposed by a weak, small, ineffective, slow and in one case, lethargic midfield who offer NO protection to the back four whatsoever. If Sam really thought that a central midfield pairing of Noble and Collison, supported, when he felt like it, by a totally disinterested Diame was effective then I have to question him massively.

Noble - yes he gives his all etc etc but he chases players around like a kid in a playground would. He, like the others, would have been told who "their man" was. So stick with him, do YOUR job and don't try and do everyone else's job for them. From how we lined up it seemed to me that Noble was supposed to be marking Johan Cabaye. He got nowhere near him all afternoon. Add into this Noble's lack of height and pace it compounds the problem.

Collison - I see NOTHING that Jack Collison brings to the team. Weak, poor in the air, no tackling ability whatsoever and no pace. Whatever Jack had before his injury has now gone and he is no better than most of the Championship midfield players out there. If he gives us nothing defensively and nothing going forward then why on earth is he playing - particularly against a technical, mobile midfield like Newcastle's?

Diame - the one midfield player we have that has height, pace and power was played in the No.10 role yesterday and yet again looked totally disinterested.

Jarvis/Rat combination - this was totally hopeless yesterday. Jarvis like so many of our side is weak, poor in the air and afraid to get stuck in. Rat is an average defender at best and is clearly better going forward than the other way. Combine those two and Sissoko had a field day yesterday. Given the freedom of Upton Park to cross for Remy for their second. James Collins had to leave his position in the centre to come out to Sissoko as Jarvis and Rat were not even in the frame!

Taylor/Downing combination - considering Taylor was asked to play right back and has probably never played there in the PL I thought he was excellent and my MoM. Not Carlton Cole! Add into that Downing's willingness to get back and support him it was an effective combination

So what alternatives do we have for our midfield?

Joe Cole - no different to Matt Jarvis defensively. Both are poor. However Jarvis has the edge with his pace and crossing ability. So could Joe Cole have played in the centre instead of Collison? Maybe. But IMO Ravel Morrison is a better option. Joe's legs are not what they were

Alou Diarra - captained France at the World Cup in 2010 as a HOLDING MIDFIELD PLAYER. Not quick granted, but positionally very good. He is powerful and good in the air. Why is he sitting on the bench? He is exactly the type of player we need shielding the back four. Collison is not. I can only think that there is an ego power battle between Diarra and Allardyce which is preventing him playing. Remember BFS is the manager who bought an aging Hierro and Campo to Bolton and they were both revelations. Diarra is the same type of player. Something is very wrong there

Ravel Morrison - mercurial. Like Collison will not give you much defensively but, unlike Collison or Noble, this can be balanced by what he gives you going the other way. If you have a talent like Ravel then make sure the rest of the midfield is solid enough to plug the holes he may leave ie GET A PROPER HOLDING MIDFIELD PLAYER IN THE MIDDLE

What is clear is that when we come up against any side with a mobile, technical midfield it is like a knife through butter. It's even worse when they have power too. Our central midfield - in some cases through no fault of their own - is not quick, strong enough or technically good enough to cope. Consequently our back four are continually exposed and have to get blocks in etc to keep the score down

So my question to BFS surrounds his team selection yesterday. After the first 10 mins or so our central midfield was clearly being out run and outmuscled by Newcastle's midfield. Collison was a passenger. Noble was often outnumbered by 2 or 3 midfield players which left Cabaye to have an absolute field day. Diame was totally disinterested. Jarvis and Rat were a disaster.

Allardyce keeps going on about our lack of striking options and our defensive injuries. While they have been valid concerns it is our central midfield which is causing our problems right now

SORT IT OUT SAM

Very well written piece tony, and whilst I old watched the MOTD high lights yesterday and most Saturdays, it's certainly the impression I get. When you compare how lambert at villa and pardew at Newcastle are slowly, and on a budget, building quick and technical (and in newcastles case, French) sides compared to our team and squad then it's certainly very down heartening. I watched MOTD yesterday and whereas I accept the fact I support a team with a small budget only recently promoted, I found myself guilty wishing I was a saints, Newcastle or villa fan. I just like what there managers are trying to build/ achieve. I was, and am, all for Sam getting us promoted and stabilising us, but long term no. Just no. The MOTD commentator made a point about rat bing lazy on the commentary and how Collins had to go over to cover him for their goal.

if Sam can't get his players to graft and grind out wins that what's he there for.


Ps, was there the protest at yesterday's match? The commentator spoke of an agitated crowd, specially after newcadtles second which would have been about the time of a planned protest?

alfiehammer wrote:Very well written piece tony, and whilst I old watched the MOTD high lights yesterday and most Saturdays, it's certainly the impression I get. When you compare how lambert at villa and pardew at Newcastle are slowly, and on a budget, building quick and technical (and in newcastles case, French) sides compared to our team and squad then it's certainly very down heartening. I watched MOTD yesterday and whereas I accept the fact I support a team with a small budget only recently promoted, I found myself guilty wishing I was a saints, Newcastle or villa fan. I just like what there managers are trying to build/ achieve. I was, and am, all for Sam getting us promoted and stabilising us, but long term no. Just no. The MOTD commentator made a point about rat bing lazy on the commentary and how Collins had to go over to cover him for their goal.

if Sam can't get his players to graft and grind out wins that what's he there for.


Ps, was there the protest at yesterday's match? The commentator spoke of an agitated crowd, specially after newcadtles second which would have been about the time of a planned protest?

I never saw or heard it mate. There was the inevitable booing after the second goal; not just because it put them 2-0 up but, I suspect, because they could and should have been 4-0 up by then

Tony P wrote:I don't think that the defence is necessarily the biggest problem. They are continually exposed by a weak, small, ineffective, slow and in one case, lethargic midfield who offer NO protection to the back four whatsoever. If Sam really thought that a central midfield pairing of Noble and Collison, supported, when he felt like it, by a totally disinterested Diame was effective then I have to question him massively.

Noble - yes he gives his all etc etc but he chases players around like a kid in a playground would. He, like the others, would have been told who "their man" was. So stick with him, do YOUR job and don't try and do everyone else's job for them. From how we lined up it seemed to me that Noble was supposed to be marking Johan Cabaye. He got nowhere near him all afternoon. Add into this Noble's lack of height and pace it compounds the problem.

Collison - I see NOTHING that Jack Collison brings to the team. Weak, poor in the air, no tackling ability whatsoever and no pace. Whatever Jack had before his injury has now gone and he is no better than most of the Championship midfield players out there. If he gives us nothing defensively and nothing going forward then why on earth is he playing - particularly against a technical, mobile midfield like Newcastle's?

Diame - the one midfield player we have that has height, pace and power was played in the No.10 role yesterday and yet again looked totally disinterested.

Jarvis/Rat combination - this was totally hopeless yesterday. Jarvis like so many of our side is weak, poor in the air and afraid to get stuck in. Rat is an average defender at best and is clearly better going forward than the other way. Combine those two and Sissoko had a field day yesterday. Given the freedom of Upton Park to cross for Remy for their second. James Collins had to leave his position in the centre to come out to Sissoko as Jarvis and Rat were not even in the frame!

Taylor/Downing combination - considering Taylor was asked to play right back and has probably never played there in the PL I thought he was excellent and my MoM. Not Carlton Cole! Add into that Downing's willingness to get back and support him it was an effective combination

So what alternatives do we have for our midfield?

Joe Cole - no different to Matt Jarvis defensively. Both are poor. However Jarvis has the edge with his pace and crossing ability. So could Joe Cole have played in the centre instead of Collison? Maybe. But IMO Ravel Morrison is a better option. Joe's legs are not what they were

Alou Diarra - captained France at the World Cup in 2010 as a HOLDING MIDFIELD PLAYER. Not quick granted, but positionally very good. He is powerful and good in the air. Why is he sitting on the bench? He is exactly the type of player we need shielding the back four. Collison is not. I can only think that there is an ego power battle between Diarra and Allardyce which is preventing him playing. Remember BFS is the manager who bought an aging Hierro and Campo to Bolton and they were both revelations. Diarra is the same type of player. Something is very wrong there

Ravel Morrison - mercurial. Like Collison will not give you much defensively but, unlike Collison or Noble,  this can be balanced by what he gives you going the other way. If you have a talent like Ravel then make sure the rest of the midfield is solid enough to plug the holes he may leave ie GET A PROPER HOLDING MIDFIELD PLAYER IN THE MIDDLE

What is clear is that when we come up against any side with a mobile, technical midfield it is like a knife through butter. It's even worse when they have power too. Our central midfield - in some cases through no fault of their own - is not quick, strong enough or technically good enough to cope. Consequently our back four are continually exposed and have to get blocks in etc to keep the score down

So my question to BFS surrounds his team selection yesterday. After the first 10 mins or so our central midfield was clearly being out run and outmuscled by Newcastle's midfield. Collison was a passenger. Noble was often outnumbered by 2 or 3 midfield players which left Cabaye to have an absolute field day. Diame was totally disinterested. Jarvis and Rat were a disaster.

Allardyce keeps going on about our lack of striking options and our defensive injuries. While they have been valid concerns it is our central midfield which is causing our problems right now

SORT IT OUT SAM

Mate, I completely concur, midfield is lightweight and devoid of players with any real class and vision going forward, or grit, steel and organisation when defending and I feel  this is because Fat Sham doesn't see midfield  as important due to his antiquated outdated  skyball style of play which is obsolete in the premiere league and modern game and sees us stagnating in the past and in a relegation place and I'm sorry but I've been saying it from post 1, I can't stand the man  and what he has done and is doing to our West Ham and hope he chokes on his chewing gum and if The Dave's are true fans of our club like they keep telling us and that the board are as astute at running football clubs like they've told us they are then they have to admit they have got it completely wrong and start putting right all the feck ups they and their managers have made in our name,
WHTID
Irons In The Soul

Tony P wrote:I don't think that the defence is necessarily the biggest problem. They are continually exposed by a weak, small, ineffective, slow and in one case, lethargic midfield who offer NO protection to the back four whatsoever. If Sam really thought that a central midfield pairing of Noble and Collison, supported, when he felt like it, by a totally disinterested Diame was effective then I have to question him massively.

Noble - yes he gives his all etc etc but he chases players around like a kid in a playground would. He, like the others, would have been told who "their man" was. So stick with him, do YOUR job and don't try and do everyone else's job for them. From how we lined up it seemed to me that Noble was supposed to be marking Johan Cabaye. He got nowhere near him all afternoon. Add into this Noble's lack of height and pace it compounds the problem.

Collison - I see NOTHING that Jack Collison brings to the team. Weak, poor in the air, no tackling ability whatsoever and no pace. Whatever Jack had before his injury has now gone and he is no better than most of the Championship midfield players out there. If he gives us nothing defensively and nothing going forward then why on earth is he playing - particularly against a technical, mobile midfield like Newcastle's?

Diame - the one midfield player we have that has height, pace and power was played in the No.10 role yesterday and yet again looked totally disinterested.

Jarvis/Rat combination - this was totally hopeless yesterday. Jarvis like so many of our side is weak, poor in the air and afraid to get stuck in. Rat is an average defender at best and is clearly better going forward than the other way. Combine those two and Sissoko had a field day yesterday. Given the freedom of Upton Park to cross for Remy for their second. James Collins had to leave his position in the centre to come out to Sissoko as Jarvis and Rat were not even in the frame!

Taylor/Downing combination - considering Taylor was asked to play right back and has probably never played there in the PL I thought he was excellent and my MoM. Not Carlton Cole! Add into that Downing's willingness to get back and support him it was an effective combination

So what alternatives do we have for our midfield?

Joe Cole - no different to Matt Jarvis defensively. Both are poor. However Jarvis has the edge with his pace and crossing ability. So could Joe Cole have played in the centre instead of Collison? Maybe. But IMO Ravel Morrison is a better option. Joe's legs are not what they were

Alou Diarra - captained France at the World Cup in 2010 as a HOLDING MIDFIELD PLAYER. Not quick granted, but positionally very good. He is powerful and good in the air. Why is he sitting on the bench? He is exactly the type of player we need shielding the back four. Collison is not. I can only think that there is an ego power battle between Diarra and Allardyce which is preventing him playing. Remember BFS is the manager who bought an aging Hierro and Campo to Bolton and they were both revelations. Diarra is the same type of player. Something is very wrong there

Ravel Morrison - mercurial. Like Collison will not give you much defensively but, unlike Collison or Noble,  this can be balanced by what he gives you going the other way. If you have a talent like Ravel then make sure the rest of the midfield is solid enough to plug the holes he may leave ie GET A PROPER HOLDING MIDFIELD PLAYER IN THE MIDDLE

What is clear is that when we come up against any side with a mobile, technical midfield it is like a knife through butter. It's even worse when they have power too. Our central midfield - in some cases through no fault of their own - is not quick, strong enough or technically good enough to cope. Consequently our back four are continually exposed and have to get blocks in etc to keep the score down

So my question to BFS surrounds his team selection yesterday. After the first 10 mins or so our central midfield was clearly being out run and outmuscled by Newcastle's midfield. Collison was a passenger. Noble was often outnumbered by 2 or 3 midfield players which left Cabaye to have an absolute field day. Diame was totally disinterested. Jarvis and Rat were a disaster.

Allardyce keeps going on about our lack of striking options and our defensive injuries. While they have been valid concerns it is our central midfield which is causing our problems right now

SORT IT OUT SAM

Quality piece Tone.

If only Sam could read that....then again even if he could he probably wouldn't bother and just come out with some crap about sports science. Surely a highly paid manager should be able to break down his players like you have above then pick his defence, decide which midfielders work best defensively and offensively with those defenders, throw in a forward or two and there's your starting 11.

Is he too stubborn or just not good enough to realise the players faults ?

He aint just stubborn Daz, He's arrogant too.  He's never liked our fans, because they dared to offer suggestions from the terraces on how to play football.

That is a great piece tony, well said. Would BFS take that sort of advise on-board?  He'd look a right minge if he did and the team started to get results wouldn't he?  Also as HH66 says,  why bother with a decent midfield, if you are just going to bypass it.

It's his way, or no way, and it's really getting on my tits now. For what he's done to our team, I hope his ear'oles turn to arse'oles and shit all over his shoulders.

Cant argue with that Mr P

Jiggs said:  For what he's done to our team, I hope his ear'oles turn to arse'oles and shit all over his shoulders.

Well said Jiggs.  

Same as the Arsenal game - if you take your chances, you score goals and get points. Against Arsenal, we were 1-0 up and missed three gilt-edged chances to wrap it up. Cole and Carroll did the same on Saturday. Carroll's was surely down to rustiness and he has shown enough in his two cameos to suggest that we will profit from his return.

I agree with Tony that Taylor played well at right-back, given the circumstances, and linked up very well with Downing, no more so than when he broke away to set up Cole's chance - what a delicious ball across that was, with his weaker foot too. I like Taylor, always have done, and just think it's a shame we didn't sign him five years earlier. However, he was caught under the flight of the ball for what proved to be a costly second goal. Although, with Collins pulled out wide by the negligence of Rat (who was simply awful on Saturday), surely Remy was Johnson's man? Noble was our Man of the Match, for me.

For tomorrow night, I would go with:

Adrian
Chambers, Tomkins, Collins, Rat
Diarra, Noble
Downing, Nolan, J.Cole
C.Cole

Subs: Jaaskelainen, Johnson, Taylor, Diame, Morrison, Jarvis, Carroll.

I can't award MoM to Noble mainly due to how poor the centre of our midfield was on Saturday. He was not only part of that but was captain. Yohan Cabaye was his man and he had the freedom of UP all afternoon

Watch the second goal. Noble is running with Cabaye but chooses to leave him and chase the ball when we already had three players around one of theirs. That left Cabaye free to drift in unmarked

Noble has to learn to be disciplined enough to track the man he has been designated to mark and NOT to chase the ball like a kid in a playground

He was not the only guilty one by any means but I don't expect much more from Collison and Diame TBH

Matt Taylor still my MoM

My starting 11 for tomorrow night

Jussi (needs to retain match sharpness)
O'Brien Tomkins Johnson Rat
Downing Diarra Noble J Cole
Nolan
C Cole

Subs: Adrian, Collins (coming back from injury), Jarvis, Carroll, Vaz Te (if fit), Chambers, Taylor (needs a rest)